NWO Sentryman
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Let me get my vicks cold treatment 
"Chemical Ali" to hang
- Thread starter lionking
- Start date
Well, he murdered a few thousand people. We can only kill him once, so it's no eye for eye no matter how hard we try. But it would be ironic if, by coincidence, he would have been killed by the same method his victims did.
The cliche that "we are more civilized if we don't kill murderers, because that makes us as bad as they are" is true. After all, we incarcerate kidnappers and fine (or worse) thieves, so "not doing as they did" is hardly an overriding reason.
The merit of the death penalty -- if there is any -- is in showing that some crimes are so horrific that anything less than the ultimate penalty is an insult to the victims.
The obvious example is the convicted Nazi war criminals in Nuremberg. It would have been no "show of strength" if the allies had refused to hang them, but a spit in the face of their millions of victims. So would giving "Chemical Ali" anything else than death. Notorious serial killers, to give another example, also surely deserve death.
This does necessarily mean one should establish the death penalty. There are good counterarguments: the possibility of mistake, for example; the fact that it seems not to prevent murder; and others.
But if there is ever a case where the death penalty is surely not only appropriate but that nothing less would be appropriate, it is a case like that of Chemical Ali.
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The hanging part is only until 'near' dead, even the gut removal was whilst concious. They seriously knew how to make a point back then!
Ah, that's sort of what I was waiting for. I was really expecting more of "it would be better if Saddam and his cronies were still in power" though.
Undesired Walrus
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It depends what you percieve 'The ultimate penalty' to be. I'd find being buried alive for the rest of my life a far worse punishment than death.
You talk about the millions of victims as if they would all favour the gallows. I certainly don't wish the death penalty on the man who killed my father, for instance. Doing so is -IMO- a position of strength as I have not allowed myself to be dragged down to the same primevil and uncivilised behaviour and blood lust that caused the murder in the first place (BTW, I don't say this as a 'You better shut up as I have experience of this', just a 'I have experience of this and this is what it caused me to think').
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portlandatheist
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A pathetic tu quoque
Deadliest deliberate chemical warfare attack perhaps, but Agent Orange would probably top it for overall effect - "According to Vietnamese Ministry of Foreign Affairs, 4.8 million Vietnamese people were exposed to Agent Orange, resulting in 400,000 deaths and disabilities, and 500,000 children born with birth defects"
Definitely Nobel Peace Prize material.
But we rise above psychopaths like Ali by not executing them.
Definitely Nobel Peace Prize material.
But we rise above psychopaths like Ali by not executing them.
NWO Sentryman
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Another Tu Quoque, which i shal elaborate upon.
The defoliation was not intentionally targeting civilians of US citizenship.
Your source (Vietnamese govt) is of dubious reliability.
Agent Orange was not intended to be a Chemical weapon for mass extermination, but was part of a tactic of denying vietcong cover.
To top it off, it's a non-sequitur
Yeah. I said most of that in my opening phrase. It wasn't a deliberate targetting of chemical weaponry on people. Just negligent.
Except - I have no idea what your mention of "civilians of US citizenship" has to do with the discussion about chemical attacks on Kurds or dioxin-laden defoliants used in SE Asia.
WaterBreather
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Well quartered covers the four convictions, so....
WaterBreather
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then chemical rummy gets 5
do i hear 6?
do i hear 6?
While that would not bother me a lot -given the number of US military misserved
harmed/killed by all sorts of badly handled things (electrocuted by bad barracks wiring for one - more than one barracks!!) in Iraq by his hand picked, no bid contract b-boys, I doubt he will ever see the inside of a jail, but I'd be thrilled if he did (for a real long time). And his little cronies too. (I support our military mostly, am bored with certain types of civilian interference that get them harmed with no purpose.)
A tech note - the Kurds Chem Ali had murdered were mostly civilian. US Military mostly tries not to get civilians (yes, there are bad ones, but my US military hero sat at a chopper door gun explaining to US troops in MyLai why coming his way to murder civilians would be a Very Bad Idea).
Hallo Alfie
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Naaah, too Mongol.
I'd still rather he saw his own entrails displayed before him prior to meeting Allah.
Just thinking
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Sorry for the tragic loss of your father.
But if I may, I keep hearing the argument being made that execution makes us no better than the killer, in that another life is taken. But I would disagree in that it is not the execution that makes us equally barbaric, but the circumstance that makes all the difference. The killer is one who knowingly and intentionally takes innocent lives from those who have not wronged, whereas execution of such a person (the killer) is more of judicial retribution. And I don't see judicial retribution as being barbaric.
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Maybe he can stay with you in your basement? That might actually be cruel and unusual punishment.
