Chávez - Load up the rubber bullets.

[WildCat]

II don't buy the excuse. I think it's nonsense. That's just my opinion though.

So you think protests should be allowed anywhere at any time? In the Oval Office? The White House lawn? Blocking the doors of a fundraising event? Within sniping range?

If there were a real problem with security then that would be fine. However no one ever keeps the admirers in free speech zones.

Admirers seldom form an angry rioting mob.

 

[RandFan]

No, it's not. He took away an entire avenue (the airwaves) in which he could be criticized.

{sigh} It really is the argument they made but that's fine. I'm not a Chavez apologist which should be clear from my avatar and sig. I'm not going to argue the point.

 

[DC]

Given that George Bush is daily called an a-hole by Americans like me and given that American TV, News, Cable shows, movies, etc. regularly and harshly critisize the American government the notion that we don't have free speech is beyond idiotic. In America, if a licence expires, you can be damn sure that the licence WILL be renewed. That's just us.

Now, that's not to say that the American government won't try to step on free speech. Damn straight they try and sadly curtail it with BS free speech zones but then you've got Chávez to remind us that things aren't as bad as they could be.

Sauce for the goose.

yeah, once you have a TV station calling up to overtrow your democratic elected government. cou can come back.

what would be done, if a TV station calls up for violence. When they give access to Chinese coup plotters to produce and spread lies and propaganda.
when they claim your president resignd, while he did not.

all those things are no problem for Randfan, those are things his government supports.

Randfan has no problem when his country is overtrowing a foreign democraticly elected president.

You say you do admit when your government did things wrong.
But hey randfan has no problem admiting the fauts of hid government.....

I want to see the US government reaction when Pat would callup to kill Bus or Obama instead of a foreign leader.

yeah you maybe admit your government has done wrongs, but only after your have profited from.

The US has a right to overthrow who ever they like to.
But the poeple arent taking your arrogance not longer anymore.

TV-Nation, parotinf mainstrammedia without ever checking if theyr storys are correct.

the Venezuelan have a modern direct Democracy and not an old corrupt 2 party system. In venezuela there is a real opposition, real political alternatives, and not just 2 almost like minded partys that differ only minimal.
but for the americans that is the big opposition, reps vs dems.....
that theyr greens or socialists or liberal do not get represented on a national level does not bother them, a vote for a 3th party is a lost vote etc.....

They need "experts" on CNN to tell them, that the US is almost the only country where Politicans are forced to act like the people want.

yeah your the biggest greatst and fairest and only democratic country.

you need TV zto tell you how well your democracy is working....
and you belive them.......

 

[RandFan]

So you think protests should be allowed anywhere at any time? In the Oval Office? The White House lawn? Blocking the doors of a fundraising event?

These would all be strawmen. I hold no such position. I'm stating my opinion that security is an abused excuse. Please note that I conceded that if there is a real threat then that is valid basis for moving the demonstrators. So I will concede the premise that security is valid. I'm just not convinced that these "security zones" are really necessary.

Within sniping range?

I'm reasonably sure that the same precautions made for admirers could be made for protesters. It seems to me that a real threat would come from someone pretending to be an admirer.

Admirers seldom form an angry rioting mob.

I never said it was easy. I'm not expert. If it is a real concern then that's fine but to date I don't think the case has been made and I have heard of others in the field state that it is just a pretext. I don't have proof of that but absent contravening evidence my opinion will remain where it is.

 

[WildCat]

yeah, once you have a TV station calling up to overtrow your democratic elected government. cou can come back.

what would be done, if a TV station calls up for violence.

Is this what actually happened?

When they give access to Chinese coup plotters to produce and spread lies and propaganda.
when they claim your president resignd, while he did not.

This kind of crap gets broadcast over US aiways all the time DC. Even Osama bin Laden's calls for jihad against the US gets broadcast! No station lost their license as a result.

 

[DC]

When an US cop overreact. it gets pointed out here, that this goes not for all police cops in the US, not even for all in the cops in one state. And sure the president of the USA has nothing to do with it.

but everything bad that happend in venezuela is presented as if it was Chavez personaly.
when your newspaper claims such stuff, you dont sceptically ask for evidence, you take their words for it.......

 

[RandFan]

{propaganda snipped}

You are just sounding silly. I'm happy to have a discussion with you but your leftist rhetoric is a waste of my time.

If and when you are serious let me know.

 

[DC]

Is this what actually happened?


This kind of crap gets broadcast over US aiways all the time DC. Even Osama bin Laden's calls for jihad against the US gets broadcast! No station lost their license as a result.

INform yourself ffs, yes that is what happened.

the UBL speaches are not shown without consultation to the CIA or FBI.
moslty the UBL tapes are shown only partial.
And especially would an US tv station not conspire with UBL and spread lies and present the Jihad UBL transition government of unelected jihadists.

 

[RandFan]

when your newspaper claims such stuff, you dont sceptically ask for evidence, you take their words for it.......

Have you ever looked in a mirror?

 

[DC]

You are just sounding silly. I'm happy to have a discussion with you leftist rhetoric is a waste of my time.

yeah the truth hurts, isnt it?

leftist waste of time i am.

you dont care what Venezuelan people elected, you just want what serves you best.
and in a decade you will then admit that the US did some bad things......

but i should not be angry at you, because you cannot do anything against it.
you do not even have a direct say into your government and country.

and you prolly still wonder why the USA is so much hated by so many people in the world. But then, who cares what the people think about you and your country, i mean you know its the most free the best the only democratic country in the world.....

ignorant folks......

 

[RandFan]

And especially would an US tv station not conspire with UBL and spread lies and present the Jihad UBL transition government of unelected jihadists.

You've no idea what they would or wouldn't do. You are just pulling this all out of your ass without any basis and in the face of evidence that proves you wrong.

I've five words for you.

Pentagon Papers, Watergate, Richard Nixon.

 

[RandFan]

ignorant folks......

Spouting rhetoric and attacking people doesn't make you right. It does make you look ignorant though.

 

[DC]

Have you ever looked in a mirror?

you can react like a kiddy, it wont help you.

face it. you buy everything aslong its against chavez, is it pro chavez it need alot lot evidence.

Do you atleast admit the US involvment in the 2002 coup?
did you read the evidence against the US?

 

[DC]

Spouting rhetoric and attacking people doesn't make you right. It does make you look ignorant though.

most US people are ignorant hen it comes to happening outside their country.
when it comes to things not well covered by their TV-News source......

you do not even realise the bias in our news.

 

[RandFan]

you can react like a kiddy

I'm not the one spouting rhetoric.

face it. you buy everything aslong its against chavez, is it pro chavez it need alot lot evidence.

Demonstrably untrue (see above).

Do you atleast admit the US involvment in the 2002 coup? did you read the evidence against the US?

I honestly don't remember. My life isn't about Chavez. I'm happy to condemn my nation when it does wrong though and that's demonstrable which is why your accusations against me are unfair and false.

 

[RandFan]

most US people are ignorant hen it comes to happening outside their country.

People in the US are not inherently better or worse than anyone else.

when it comes to things not well covered by their TV-News source......

At least we have freedom of the press.

you do not even realise the bias in our news.

Actually I do. That's why I read a wide variety of sources.

If you are going to sit there and say that America is always bad and always wrong and always biased then you just look like brainwashed leftist stooge. Unlike you I can give both credit and criticism to both Chavez and America.

I've no blind faith.

 

[DC]

where was the US people pointing out the lack of democracy in the decades ipre chavez inn venezuela?
while the majority suffered and had to live in ectreme poverty.
the US people didnt mind wath was going on n Venezuela. The news didnt inform you about it. and aslong the oil flows there is no need for democracy.

but now that the oil is not so sure to flow anymore, now the media is informing you. and the case is clear. the guy is an evil US hater. and he doesnt give a **** about democracy. now the outcry of the US people is big.

when people choose Capitalism, then Democracy is important, but when they only want some Bolivarism and socialism, then democracy is in danger, then the US must act.

and you know it randfan, you willingly ignore it. bacause you cannot do anything against it anyway, in 10 year you will be on JREF and admit, yeah my country did some bad things, but hey mostly we did good, well i belive, or not?

 

[DC]

I'm not the one spouting rhetoric.

Demonstrably untrue (see above).

I honestly don't remember. My life isn't about Chavez. I'm happy to condemn my nation when it does wrong though and that's demonstrable which is why your accusations against me are unfair and false.

yeah, sure its not important to take a closer look, why should you read true the CIA documents to maybe find some true.

i cant remember ...... oh really?
tell you what, the Venezuelans do remember.

 

[RandFan]

you do not even realise the bias in our news.

BTW: Though I love America I don't even claim that America is the best. It's great but I think the Scandinavian nations are doing a much better job than we are. I'm not against socialism.

This idea of hating America or any nation is a waste of your time. We have good points and bad points. And Chavez isn't a messiah. He's a human being and as subject to the corrupting influence of power as anyone.

 

[RandFan]

and you know it randfan, you willingly ignore it. bacause you cannot do anything against it anyway, in 10 year you will be on JREF and admit, yeah my country did some bad things, but hey mostly we did good, well i belive, or not?

Let it out. I'm here for you. I'm sincerly sorry for whatever difficulties you are having right now.