Chávez - Load up the rubber bullets.

[funk de fino]

you dont know how many got killed under the Carmona regime?
shouldnt you know when you come and debate about the coup?

Come on then tell me. I know how you like these games.

The US goverment knew about it, they was the first to accept him. i call him US Dictator.

They did not put him in place, that was the venezuelan military. Flail all you want but it just makes you look silly. The US accepting someone does not mean they put them there.

Chavez was not doing a coup for foreign governments and companys, he did it to help its people.

Traitorous and criminal. He went to jail. Now you support his coup but not others? How many did Chavez coup kill while we are on that?

and Most soldiers did the right thing during the coup, expect for the plotters.the Venezuelan Army served its people. also when they turned against Chavez. Because based on wath they knew, they did the right thing.
But Chavez has a diffrent oppinion about it.

Absolute mumbo jumbo. Please translate that last statement.

 

[DC]

Come on then tell me. I know how you like these games.

hey i learned that from you.

They did not put him in place, that was the venezuelan military. Flail all you want but it just makes you look silly. The US accepting someone does not mean they put them there.

well the coup was linked to the Bush team .

Traitorous and criminal. He went to jail. Now you support his coup but not others? How many did Chavez coup kill while we are on that?

It depends. with the Prison uprise, i think above 300 in total.
but how many they killed directly? that is not known as Chavez was never convicted for the coup. contrary to what you claim

Absolute mumbo jumbo. Please translate that last statement.

Most soldiers where not in on the coup, they had to decide who in the splited army the follow, and some did that based on the false information they recived. Can you blame them for it? i cant. When they realised what was going on and saw the people marching on the streets and demanding their president back, they knew what was to do.

 

[funk de fino]

hey i learned that from you.

So you say

well the coup was linked to the Bush team .

And again with the hypocrisy. The guardian says it is so. What about when the guardian says something bad about Chavez? Is it not true?

The coup was not linked to Mr Bush at all. Just because someone knows about something does not mean they carried it out.

As you say to me. That is not evidence. Unamed sources in a UK newspaper??

It depends. with the Prison uprise, i think above 300 in total.
but how many they killed directly? that is not known as Chavez was never convicted for the coup. contrary to what you claim

He went to jail for the coup attempt. He made wild claims about US forces and could not back them up. His attempt cost lives. He was a traitor to the elected govt.

Most soldiers where not in on the coup, they had to decide who in the splited army the follow, and some did that based on the false information they recived. Can you blame them for it? i cant. When they realised what was going on and saw the people marching on the streets and demanding their president back, they knew what was to do.

How much of the military did he have when he attempted his? 10%? They had to decide then also eh?

You seem to think a coup is only a coup when Chavez is on the recieving end.

 

[DC]

So you say



And again with the hypocrisy. The guardian says it is so. What about when the guardian says something bad about Chavez? Is it not true?

The coup was not linked to Mr Bush at all. Just because someone knows about something does not mean they carried it out.

As you say to me. That is not evidence. Unamed sources in a UK newspaper??

i guess you know the FOIA documents of the diffrent agencys involved.
and i am sure your venezuelan news source told you about the the trials and what was admited by the plotters and the recrdings of the police frequency used by the snipers that day, etc etc.

He went to jail for the coup attempt. He made wild claims about US forces and could not back them up. His attempt cost lives. He was a traitor to the elected govt.

you claimed he was convicted, he was not....
sure he was a traitor to the government but not against the people, like the government was.

i guess you also demand that North koreans change theyr country via democratic reforms, rather than a revolution....

How much of the military did he have when he attempted his? 10%? They had to decide then also eh?

You seem to think a coup is only a coup when Chavez is on the recieving end.

those of the MBR had already decided.

No. what chavez did was a clear coup d'état, an unconstitutional overthrow of the government.
I am very sure that Chavez even would want to make sure it was unconstitutional. but therfore you would need to know more about the MBR. ask you venezuelan news source.

and Carmona didnt want a coup, we wanted Chavez to resign. They even lied about his resignment.

 

[funk de fino]

i guess you know the FOIA documents of the diffrent agencys involved.and i am sure your venezuelan news source told you about the the trials and what was admited by the plotters and the recrdings of the police frequency used by the snipers that day, etc etc.

Why do you use western media then? Hypocrite again. Bush did not carry out the coup and Carmona was not a US dictator. You gave me an unsourced piece from a UK paper. I gave you a link to a website with claims from venezuelans. Is it only acceptabe to pick and choose what media you use from the west? Only the left wing lot?

you claimed he was convicted, he was not....
sure he was a traitor to the government but not against the people, like the government was.

He attepted a coup against the elected govt. That is traitorous. He was sent to jail for it.

i guess you also demand that North koreans change theyr country via democratic reforms, rather than a revolution....

Yes, I think the UN should fix these type of problems. The Ukranians managed to bring about change peacefully.

those of the MBR had already decided.

He only had support of 10% of the military when he attempted his coup.

No. what chavez did was a clear coup d'état, an unconstitutional overthrow of the government.I am very sure that Chavez even would want to make sure it was unconstitutional. but therfore you would need to know more about the MBR. ask you venezuelan news source.

A coup is a coup. He is a hypocrite when it comes to a coup and so are you.

and Carmona didnt want a coup, we wanted Chavez to resign. They even lied about his resignment.

That would have been the military who did that then eh? Not Carmona.

 

[DC]

Why do you use western media then? Hypocrite again. Bush did not carry out the coup and Carmona was not a US dictator. You gave me an unsourced piece from a UK paper. I gave you a link to a website with claims from venezuelans. Is it only acceptabe to pick and choose what media you use from the west? Only the left wing lot?



He attepted a coup against the elected govt. That is traitorous. He was sent to jail for it.



Yes, I think the UN should fix these type of problems. The Ukranians managed to bring about change peacefully.



He only had support of 10% of the military when he attempted his coup.



A coup is a coup. He is a hypocrite when it comes to a coup and so are you.



That would have been the military who did that then eh? Not Carmona.

no he is not a hypocrit about coups.

Chavez's amnesty decree , another western media link

http://www.usatoday.com/news/topstories/2007-12-31-1482318110_x.htm

yeah lets hope some will not be starved in NK untoll the UN is doing something......
the North Korans have to do it on their own, we in the west are not interested.
would they have oil, we sure would help them....

 

[funk de fino]

no he is not a hypocrit about coups.

Chavez's amnesty decree , another western media link

http://www.usatoday.com/news/topstories/2007-12-31-1482318110_x.htm

is that evidence of anything?

yeah lets hope some will not be starved in NK untoll the UN is doing something......the North Korans have to do it on their own, we in the west are not interested. would they have oil, we sure would help them....

That is another issue and nothing to do with Venezuela.

 

[WildCat]

oh i sevreal time posted already, that i think this is wrong to support the FARC.


but what is your evidence in this matter?

Captured FARC computers verified by Interpol.

 

[WildCat]

yeah lets hope some will not be starved in NK untoll the UN is doing something......
the North Korans have to do it on their own, we in the west are not interested.
would they have oil, we sure would help them....

Tens of thousands of Americans died in Korea.

Has Switzerland ever done anything for the victims of dictatorships other than provide a safe haven for the dictators stolen money in Swiss banks? Only in the last decade did Swiss banks even admit they held Nazi war loot.

 

[RandFan]

This didn't answer the question.
do you think an US friendly government installed with help of the CIA would be the best for Venezuelans?

I don't know. Should Venezuela do what is only best for America? Should America only do what is best for Venezuela.

Not propaganda, CIA documentation, the History of the CIA.

Yes Propaganda.

i thought you dont see the world black and white?????

I don't.

they dont want Capitalism, especially not free market policies that killed so many poor people on this planet.

Capitalism has saved many, many millions of people. Capitalism has resulted in medicine and exponential increases in food production. That is why the Chinese are not getting rid of Capitalism in the south and are allowing Capitalism to spread north. It's their brand of Capitalism mixed with Socialism but make no mistake about it, it is Capitalism.

All of the highest rated nations for HDI have Capitalism AND Socialism.

Capitalism isn't the boogeyman you want it to be.

 

[DC]

Captured FARC computers verified by Interpol.

well that "Evidence" is worthless in court.

Finding 2b: Access to the data contained in the eight FARC computer exhibits
between 1 March 2008, when they were seized by Colombian authorities, and 3 March
2008 at 11:45 a.m., when they were turned over to the Grupo Investigativo de Delitos
Informáticos of the Colombian Judicial Police, did not conform to internationally
recognized principles for handling electronic evidence by law enforcement.

http://www.interpol.int/Public/ICPO/PressReleases/PR2008/pdfPR200817/ipPublicReportNoCoverEN.pdf

and Interpol did not take a look at the evidence, but at the data on the devices, while they didnt find evidence for manipulating data, they found some strange things like timestamps in the future.

And what kind of connections did Venezuela have to FARC? they for sure had contact to free hostages.

 

[DC]

Tens of thousands of Americans died in Korea.

Has Switzerland ever done anything for the victims of dictatorships other than provide a safe haven for the dictators stolen money in Swiss banks? Only in the last decade did Swiss banks even admit they held Nazi war loot.

Korea was the first time the swiss army acted outside Switzerland.

im totaly on your side about swiss banks

 

[BeAChooser]

read the documents, its not only 1 document.....

I looked through the CIA documents at your link. I see nothing that links the CIA to the coup. Would you kindly provide the URL for the document that you think proves the CIA was behind the coup? Not just some vague reference to a site with dozens of documents that I frankly don't have the time or interest in reading.

 

[DC]

I looked through the CIA documents at your link. I see nothing that links the CIA to the coup. Would you kindly provide the URL for the document that you think proves the CIA was behind the coup? Not just some vague reference to a site with dozens of documents that I frankly don't have the time or interest in reading.

http://venezuelafoia.info/ciac3.html

here days before the coup they had pretty detailed info what was going to happen. Even that Chavez support was still intact.

and one day after the coup the whitehouse lied to the media.

 

[BeAChooser]

http://venezuelafoia.info/ciac3.html

That doesn't say or prove the CIA or US was behind the coup. It only shows that we have intelligence assets all over the world. It's their job to know what is happening or about to happen ... so I'm glad they were able to inform the Whitehouse that a coup was possibly going to occur. But I guess in your mind the CIA is damned if they don't (as in the case of 9/11) and even damned if they do. And I certainly don't see us having any responsibility to inform Chavez what was about to happen.

 

[DC]

That doesn't say or prove the CIA or US was behind the coup. It only shows that we have intelligence assets all over the world. It's their job to know what is happening or about to happen ... so I'm glad they were able to inform the Whitehouse that a coup was possibly going to occur. But I guess in your mind the CIA is damned if they don't (as in the case of 9/11) and even damned if they do. And I certainly don't see us having any responsibility to inform Chavez what was about to happen.

The details still are unclear. We know that the action encouraged by the Chavez government provoked this crisis. According to the best information available, the Chavez government suppressed peaceful demonstrations. Government supporters, on orders from the Chavez government, fired on unarmed, peaceful protestors, resulting in 10 killed and 100 wounded. The Venezuelan military and the police refused to fire on the peaceful demonstrators and refused to support the government's role in such human rights violations. The government also tried to prevent independent news media from reporting on these events.

The results of these events are now that President Chavez has resigned the presidency. Before resigning, he dismissed the vice president and the cabinet, and a transitional civilian government has been installed. This government has promised early elections.

The United States will continue to monitor events. That is what took place, and the Venezuelan people expressed their right to peaceful protest. It was a very large protest that turned out. And the protest was met with violence.

http://209.85.129.132/search?q=cach...+12+Venezuela&hl=de&ct=clnk&cd=1&client=opera

he whitehouse clearly missinformed the public.

 

[funk de fino]

The details still are unclear.

According to the best information available,

Not lies then just unclear info. Wonder who is lying?

 

[DC]

Not lies then just unclear info. Wonder who is lying?

So according to the whitehouse, the Info from the CIA was not the best avaible Info?

 

[funk de fino]

So according to the whitehouse, the Info from the CIA was not the best avaible Info?

Please prove to us the CIA were involved in or instigated the coup like you have claimed.

Please prove to us the Whitehouse lied about anything.

No more waffling, bring it.

 

[DC]

Please prove to us the CIA were involved in or instigated the coup like you have claimed.

Please prove to us the Whitehouse lied about anything.

No more waffling, bring it.

So the CIA has inside knowledge of a coming coup, they know details about the plans.

But the whitehouse is telling a diffrent story, and seems not based on the CIA information. how come they dont think the CIA info is the best info?
why didnt they tell the public what they knew?