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Challenge to CIT

jhunter1163 said:
I pointed out that Reheat showed that the bank is aerodynamically impossible no matter what type of plane is used. This ought to be even more fun.
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A reminder to all. Let's be careful and keep these statements in context.

It is aerodynamically impossible to make the turn by Washington Blvd and also meet all witnesses descriptions. Be sure to add that caveat about adhering to all witnesses descriptions. In other words flyover maneuver (in total) was impossible while honoring all witness descriptions.

As full of BS as they are, they could "throw out" witnesses and show it was possible, plus a couple of other things that might make it close (on paper).

Paik brothers testimony doom their theory.

Robert Turcois dooms their theory.

Depending on how/what they do (doubtful) Lagasse could doom them, as well, even without considering that he said AA77 hit the building.
 
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jhunter1163 said:
Caveat duly noted, sir.
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I'm not trying to be difficult at all, but everyone does need to watch the absolutes because a vicious dying animal is dangerous. CIT is on the brink with this and so is pfffft, that's perhaps why Balsamo is incognito now. However, they can violate witness statements by hand waving them away and come up with all sorts of stuff to include BS aerodynamics. They've already hand waved the speed away violating their own witnesses testimony to support the fantasy (unfortunately they crashed and burned the first time), so they are and will be like monkey's throwing their stuff against the wall to see what sticks.

Heck, look at what's happening already. Super triple irrefutable, Independently, and Scientifically corraborated witnesses trump aerodynamic principles of flight and it is twoofer FACX!

They have several options and I'm not going to name them, but it's possible to adopt one of several approaches, unfortunately they will have to throw one or more of their babies out with the dishwater.
 
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the official flight path down the hill with the high G pull up at 530 mph has been proven impossible and the high G official FDR loop southwest of the Pentagon over Alexandria and Springfield has been proven faked and never happened
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Obviously still believes the tripe math of Pft about the high g pull out of the dive, and also buys into the long ago debunked high g characterization of the desending turn.

All of his quotes illustrate that some forms of stupid cannot be dissolved away with intelligent solutions.
 
jaydeehess said:
Obviously still believes the tripe math of Pft about the high g pull out of the dive, and also buys into the long ago debunked high g characterization of the desending turn.

All of his quotes illustrate that some forms of stupid cannot be dissolved away with intelligent solutions.
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Nominated for pith for the last line!
 
For j19

How 'bout posting this in the speed thread at LCF.

So, I speculated about speed did I?

Here's another method to calculate the speed if you don't like what I originally used.

CIT witness Edward Paik testified as an " Irrefutable, Independently Verified, Scientifically Corroborated Witness" that he took 7 steps toward Columbia Pike after the aircraft passed over his head when he heard the explosion at the Pentagon. The time for 7 steps varies with leg length and speed of gait, but I've done an experiment today with several people from kids to teenagers to adults of varying height. The time for 7 steps varied from ~ 3 - 5 seconds timed with a stop watch. No one took more than 5 seconds and that was an older person.

From Edward Paik's business directly to the pentagon is ~3874'/780 fps = 4.9 seconds to impact.

The speed of sound is 770 MPH on a standard day.

~3874'/770 fps = 5.03 seconds

From Edward Paik's business to NoC and then to the Pentagon (not considering turn radius, which is longer) is ~ 3922.76'

3922.76/780 = 5.02 seconds

Now, should I speed up or slow down the speed for NoC?
 
Reheat said:
How 'bout posting this in the speed thread at LCF.

So, I speculated about speed did I?

Here's another method to calculate the speed if you don't like what I originally used.

CIT witness Edward Paik testified as an " Irrefutable, Independently Verified, Scientifically Corroborated Witness" that he took 7 steps toward Columbia Pike after the aircraft passed over his head when he heard the explosion at the Pentagon. The time for 7 steps varies with leg length and speed of gait, but I've done an experiment today with several people from kids to teenagers to adults of varying height. The time for 7 steps varied from ~ 3 - 5 seconds timed with a stop watch. No one took more than 5 seconds and that was an older person.

From Edward Paik's business directly to the pentagon is ~3874'/780 fps = 4.9 seconds to impact.

The speed of sound is 770 MPH on a standard day.

~3874'/770 fps = 5.03 seconds

From Edward Paik's business to NoC and then to the Pentagon (not considering turn radius, which is longer) is ~ 3922.76'

3922.76/780 = 5.02 seconds

Now, should I speed up or slow down the speed for NoC?
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Craig did say his witnesses are verified and scientifically proven, as was your experiment (now peer reviewed). 780 fps is it! Or very close. His new path with a straight run from NoC takes over 8 gs from Piak's position. Will they understand no matter how they line up the numbers get worse for them? END OF CIT NoC path. Done in by their own witness who they will now crucify for being something other than totally verified!

Paik will be dropped for J-walking or something.
 
Reheat said:
From Edward Paik's business directly to the pentagon is ~3874'/780 fps = 4.9 seconds to impact.

The speed of sound is 770 MPH on a standard day.

~3874'/770 fps = 5.03 seconds

From Edward Paik's business to NoC and then to the Pentagon (not considering turn radius, which is longer) is ~ 3922.76'

3922.76/780 = 5.02 seconds

Now, should I speed up or slow down the speed for NoC?
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I'm not sure what you're trying to do with the bolded part. Are you trying to figure out how long the sound of the crash will take to get to Paik? If so, I think you forgot to convert the speed of sound into fps. I figure it as about 1129 fps, using your 770 mph figure.


Or, maybe you're trying to show that the plane would have to be going near the speed of sound? In any case, this should be clarified, as we know they'll take any out you give them.
 
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Horatius said:
I'm not sure what you're trying to do with the bolded part. Are you trying to figure out how long the sound of the crash will take to get to Paik? If so, I think you forgot to convert the speed of sound into fps. I figure it as about 1129 fps, using your 770 mph figure.


Or, maybe you're trying to show that the plane would have to be going near the speed of sound? In any case, this should be clarified, as we know they'll take any out you give them.
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Yep, you're right. Thanks for catching that. The NWO (New Whiskey Overproof) influence made me do it. Here's the revision....

************************

So, I speculated about speed did I?

Here's another method to calculate the speed if you don't like what I originally used.

CIT witness Edward Paik testified as an " Irrefutable, Independently Verified, Scientifically Corroborated Witness" that he took 7 steps toward Columbia Pike after the aircraft passed over his head when he heard the explosion at the Pentagon. The time for 7 steps varies with leg length and speed of gait, but I've done an experiment today with several people from kids to teenagers to adults of varying height. The time for 7 steps varied from ~ 3 - 5 seconds timed with a stop watch. No one took more than 5 seconds and that was an older person.

From Edward Paik's business directly to the pentagon is ~3874'/780 fps = 4.9 seconds to impact.

The speed of sound is 770 MPH on a standard day.

~3874'/1129 fps = 3.43 seconds

From Edward Paik's business to NoC and then to the Pentagon (not considering turn radius, which is longer) is ~ 3922.76'

3922.76/780 = 5.02 seconds

Now, should I speed up or slow down the speed for NoC?
 
A follow-up to the post on the tactic of adherence to witness statements for evolving theories......

As it stands now, the only thing CIT (and their supporters) are doing is clinging to their witnesses like glue (cherry picked statements, of course) and offering nothing in the way of proven science in rebuttal to their not possible fight path.

We need to continue to tighten the noose using their tactics and own witnesses against them as has already been done. Every time they post, the discrepancies with their witnesses statements should be pointed out. Keep moving the goals posts until they do.

Ranke say the witnesses are: "super triple irrefutable, Independently, and Scientifically corroborated", so use that to the fullest.

For those posting on other boards, please keep up the pressure using their own tactics and their own witnesses statements. Surely, by now only the most ardent twoofers are buying virtually anything they say.

These frauds need to be forced off of the Internet if it's at all possible.
 
SPrestons Sopwith Camel MPH converts to 8 seconds to impact. for a total including sound travel of 11.43 seconds. Which is the time a wheelchair would travel those six or seven steps. Paik is describing something very fast. Balsamo still wants his high speed in a weak attempt for G forces to discredit the altitude loss in the FDR data. So we are back to 530 mph which gives us 3874/770 or 5.03 seconds to impact reflected sound added is 8.45 seconds. Math is their worst enemy regardless of any speed they pick between them. Cant have it both ways, If the flight cannot lose altitude because of G force it sure as hell cant turn in a tight radius either. I predict more posts of animated gifs with much hand and arm waving and cartoons of paper airplanes. It is all they can do during this CIT meltdown.
 
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Beachnut, I just saw Ranke's post regarding the jems report and a conflict between AA77 (presumably) and an aircraft taking off from DCA.

If a National Ground Stop was in effect as they contend, why/how was an aircraft taking off from DCA?

Oops, forgot that little detail!

(only 1 dog for this one)

 
A W Smith said:
SPrestons Sopwith Camel MPH converts to 8 seconds to impact. for a total including sound travel of 11.43 seconds. Which is the time a wheelchair would travel those six or seven steps. Paik is describing something very fast. Balsamo still wants his high speed in a weak attempt for G forces to discredit the altitude loss in the FDR data. So we are back to 530 mph which gives us 3874/770 or 5.03 seconds to impact reflected sound added is 8.45 seconds. Math is their worst enemy regardless of any speed they pick between them. Cant have it both ways, If the flight cannot lose altitude because of G force it sure as hell cant turn in a tight radius either. I predict more posts of animated gifs with much hand and arm waving and cartoons of paper airplanes. It is all they can do during this CIT meltdown.
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A W, note the revision above. The time for sound travel to Paik is actually 3.43 seconds. There was a whiskey math error originally.

Nope, the whiskey didn't wash the stupid away, but I'm trying.

ETA: I see you know the sound time, but your numbers are still little off due to the confusion. It's not important at all, but the numbers all do need to be correct
 
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