Castro has passed on

[Craig B]

I was wondering if there's anyone here who has been to both Cuba and traveled extensively through Central America. It would be nice to have insight into how life in Cuba compared to the rest of the region. Your average Cuban was poor but I am not sure if the poverty compares to that found in other Central American countries. Was crime worse or better in Cuba? How about education and health care for the average citizen? It would be nice to hear from people who are familiar with the region.

One of the problems with this mode of evaluation is that the same balance can't be used to measure the relative weight of good public health care and the absence of political freedom. In the struggle for the latter amenity, people often willingly sacrifice their health and wellbeing, and put at risk the wellbeing of others.

Nor do I understand how it could be thought that the absence of democratic rights could contribute to the improvement of public health.

The USSR under Stalin made similar claims about health and education, at a time when its record in the field of freedom and democracy was atrocious. Following Stalin's death it was revealed that many of the claims his regime made about social provision were exaggerated, misleading or simply false. What will we find out about Cuba's past in the coming months and years, I wonder?

 

[Ziggurat]

The USSR under Stalin made similar claims about health and education, at a time when its record in the field of freedom and democracy was atrocious. Following Stalin's death it was revealed that many of the claims his regime made about social provision were exaggerated, misleading or simply false. What will we find out about Cuba's past in the coming months and years, I wonder?

As long as Raul is in charge, none of the official fictions will be exposed. So it will take longer than a few months before there's any prospect of finding out the truth.

 

[Garrison]

Nor do I understand how it could be thought that the absence of democratic rights could contribute to the improvement of public health.
?

That's easy. Consider something like the Anti-vaxxers in the US, do you think they would last five minutes in Cuba? There's any number of issues from vaccination to sanitation where a regime like Castro's could have significant advantages.

 

[Craig B]

As long as Raul is in charge, none of the official fictions will be exposed. So it will take longer than a few months before there's any prospect of finding out the truth.

Took some time in the USSR. Stalin died in March 1953. Khrushchev's speech denouncing him was in February 1956, and that was only the beginning of the process.

 

[Craig B]

That's easy. Consider something like the Anti-vaxxers in the US, do you think they would last five minutes in Cuba? There's any number of issues from vaccination to sanitation where a regime like Castro's could have significant advantages.

Also significant disadvantages if reports of poor practice or existing ill health are simply suppressed. I don't know if they are or have been in Cuba.

 

[newyorkguy]

...Many people were for Fidel at first, but could not stay that way when it became clear that, along with the good came a lot of dark stuff. I have enough Cuban relatives to know just how brutal and repressive the Castro regime could be...

This was an interesting post. I also have Cuban relatives, my Dad's parents were Cuban though my Dad was born in New York City. His cousin -- I considered him my uncle -- came from Cuba just a year or two before Fidel Castro and his guerilla fighters surged to victory. After settling in NY City and watching as events unfolded on the island, my uncle Herman became a huge supporter of Fidel. Although as mentioned above, this was only at first. My uncle was an intelligent, educated man -- he was a darkroom technician for NY fashion photographers -- and he didn't have a big problem with Castro embracing socialism. He believed, as it was widely argued at the time, Cuban society had been so damaged by the colonial era, then by the corrupt dictators who followed, a transition period was needed. That socialism would allow the country to throw off its oppressive past and go on to a democratic future. But then the reports of repression began. Mass arrests, the imprisonments, the persecution, the torture, the executions. The more mundane everyday security apparatus, volunteers keeping the regime informed of people in the workplace who criticized Castro, people in the neighborhood who voiced opposition to Castro.

I was just a young kid back then and I couldn't understand why Castro couldn't see what he was doing. How he was betraying the ideals he and his compatriots had fought for.

What a complete tragedy.

 

[fuelair]

Not there? What a pity. You should have had him tortured down here, as you usually recommend. That would have served him right for torturing people in jail, as he is said to have done.

I quite agree but I am neither in charge nor in Cuba so a bit unable. I prefer many things that I am not in a position to control were different.

 

[HoverBoarder]

It was a good thing that Obama started the rapprochement before Castro died. Castro certainly did a lot of damage to his people, although National pride will keep them from completely vilifying him for now.

It's a different generation in Cuba now, and they can just focus on moving onto something better.

Also, berating an old dead dictator will not help much except for making sure history does not repeat the idiotic mistake of communism again. Which it wouldn't do much anyways since Communism has thoroughly shown itself to be a failed system.

 

[Navigator]

Burn in hell, Fidel.

My sentiments exactly.

*********** fundies.

 

[Ziggurat]

*********** fundies.

Why so sensitive? Are you in mourning?

 

[caveman1917]

Also significant disadvantages if reports of poor practice or existing ill health are simply suppressed. I don't know if they are or have been in Cuba.

Seems unlikely though. Cuba has sent doctors to help out in many countries, if their claims of good health services were fake we'd have found out from those other places.

Regarding the economic embargo by the US. Cuba was at the time of Batista basically the US's sugar plantation, having this export market removed had a profound effect on Cuba's economy, since most of their economy was based on sugar export to the US.

 

[qayak]

It was a good thing that Obama started the rapprochement before Castro died. Castro certainly did a lot of damage to his people, although National pride will keep them from completely vilifying him for now.

It's a different generation in Cuba now, and they can just focus on moving onto something better.

Just the opposite actually. It is the younger generation of Cuban exiles in the U.S. that have been calling for talks between Cuba and the U.S.

 

[Halcyon Dayz]

Fidel loved to rail on over the US embargo, blaming it for virtually all of Cuba's ills.

Enemies/scapegoats are very useful to autocratic regimes.

 

[Craig B]

Seems unlikely though. Cuba has sent doctors to help out in many countries, if their claims of good health services were fake we'd have found out from those other places.

Yes, Cuba was capable of providing good health care for export. If it was received internally by its own population - and as I have said I have no direct information - we may soon have the opportunity to confirm or deny.

Regarding the economic embargo by the US. Cuba was at the time of Batista basically the US's sugar plantation, having this export market removed had a profound effect on Cuba's economy, since most of their economy was based on sugar export to the US.

My disappointment with Castro doesn't imply support for US treatment of Cuba, any more than distaste for Stalin indicates enthusiasm for Tsarism.

 

[caveman1917]

Yes, Cuba was capable of providing good health care for export. If it was received internally by its own population - and as I have said I have no direct information - we may soon have the opportunity to confirm or deny.

It would be kind of strange to have large numbers of well-trained doctors sitting around doing nothing while people would have no access to health care. Also, from the people I know who have visited Cuba - which is more than a few - all of them state that it does indeed have free universal healthcare.

My disappointment with Castro doesn't imply support for US treatment of Cuba, any more than distaste for Stalin indicates enthusiasm for Tsarism.

I was mainly responding to the notion in this thread that the US embargo wasn't so bad, which fails to account for how much Cuba's economy was focused on sugar exports to the US. I'm making no argument pro or contra Castro.

 

[Craig B]

It would be kind of strange to have large numbers of well-trained doctors sitting around doing nothing while people would have no access to health care. Also, from the people I know who have visited Cuba - which is more than a few - all of them state that it does indeed have free universal healthcare.

Then I hope that will be reflected in any revelations we may see in coming months. We don't really know what the Cuban people think about things.

I was mainly responding to the notion in this thread that the US embargo wasn't so bad, which fails to account for how much Cuba's economy was focused on sugar exports to the US. I'm making no argument pro or contra Castro.

It certainly had a very serious effect. But one of Fidel's predispositions, not so much followed by his brother, was to inhibit small farmers from diversifying agricultural production in the interests of consumers. Vast amounts of food were imported using the earnings from sugar exports. I think Castro's concentration on this was a mistake that tended to make the effects of the embargo even worse.

 

[Belz...]

Not there? What a pity. You should have had him tortured down here, as you usually recommend. That would have served him right for torturing people in jail, as he is said to have done.

Nah. If God does exist it'd be best to just make Fidel see the light and send him to Heaven with the rest. I mean, it's the afterlife, full of bliss, right? Who cares at that point?

 

[Ziggurat]

It would be kind of strange to have large numbers of well-trained doctors sitting around doing nothing while people would have no access to health care.

They have access, it's just terrible health care. Seeing a doctor doesn't do much good if the doctor has nothing to work with.

I was mainly responding to the notion in this thread that the US embargo wasn't so bad, which fails to account for how much Cuba's economy was focused on sugar exports to the US. I'm making no argument pro or contra Castro.

Nope, sorry, doesn't wash. Sugar is fungible. If they can't export it to the US, they can export it elsewhere. That shouldn't have made much difference, if the economy was managed with anything approaching competence.

 

[Craig B]

They have access, it's just terrible health care. Seeing a doctor doesn't do much good if the doctor has nothing to work with.



Nope, sorry, doesn't wash. Sugar is fungible. If they can't export it to the US, they can export it elsewhere. That shouldn't have made much difference, if the economy was managed with anything approaching competence.

Not necessarily. The US took secondary action against countries and companies that traded with Cuba, to make them reluctant to do so. It is pointless to understate US hostility to Cuba, or its effects.

But apart from that, the Cuban economy was damaged by the excessive centralism and authoritarianism practiced by Castro.

 

[theprestige]

It would be kind of strange to have large numbers of well-trained doctors sitting around doing nothing while people would have no access to health care. Also, from the people I know who have visited Cuba - which is more than a few - all of them state that it does indeed have free universal healthcare.

So? Governments do strange and counter productive things all the time. Communist auticracies especially. Look at Venezuela.

Besides, the doctors weren't sitting around doing nothing, remember? They were providing basic medical care in other countries.