Castro has passed on

[fuelair]

The Miami Herald has been waiting to run this tour de force for a while.

I am sure they will sell a shipload of copies to the Cuban population there!!!!

 

[Craig B]

And murdering numbers of people - so I'm afraid I hope he is burning in hell too - even though no heaven, hell or afterlife is actually there.

Not there? What a pity. You should have had him tortured down here, as you usually recommend. That would have served him right for torturing people in jail, as he is said to have done.

 

[Aepervius]

And murdering numbers of people - so I'm afraid I hope he is burning in hell too - even though no heaven, hell or afterlife is actually there.

I wonder, on the whole , I am betting that the most damage to the Cuban people happened not through the torture, or loss of free speech - but through the economical embargo. As for murdering and torturing... Is there any country which has not been murdering people at some point in the last 30-50 years ? Even France or the USA I can point situation of either. e.g. Rainbow warrior.

 

[Craig B]

I wonder, on the whole , I am betting that the most damage to the Cuban people happened not through the torture, or loss of free speech - but through the economical embargo. As for murdering and torturing... Is there any country which has not been murdering people at some point in the last 30-50 years ? Even France or the USA I can point situation of either. e.g. Rainbow warrior.

Let that be so: though to the credit of both France and the USA they have managed to retain democratic forms of government, which can still produce surprises, and Castro certainly did not. Also, Castro's absurd economic centralism - as if stallholders and labouring market farmers were capitalist exploiters who have to be repressed - how utterly preposterous! - did enormous damage to Cuban consumers.

But in any case we don't excuse US Imperialist economic repression of the third world, or French government assassination squads, do we? If Castro is to be compared with these things, that's even worse. What an imperialist shouldn't do, a socialist even more certainly shouldn't do.

 

[SusanB-M1]

I'm reading this thread and did not intend to post, but every time Synthetic Dave reads the title, I wince at the phrase passed on'. Passed on what to whom? Gone where? He is dead and I think euphmisms should be avoided, or outlawed, or something.

Okay, thank you, I've had my say!

 

[Ziggurat]

He lived a long happy life, doing what he always dreamed of and succeeding at it. Can't we be at least a bit happy for him?

When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims.

 

[Ziggurat]

I wonder, on the whole , I am betting that the most damage to the Cuban people happened not through the torture, or loss of free speech - but through the economical embargo.

No, this is wrong. Cuba could trade freely with most of the world, and got significant subsidies from the USSR. Very little of its misery is attributable to the US trade embargo. Its own insane economic policies inflicted orders of magnitude more harm than the US not trading with it.

As for murdering and torturing... Is there any country which has not been murdering people at some point in the last 30-50 years ?

Are you saying the scope and scale of murders don't matter? If so, that's a reprehensible position to take, and if not, you're making an equivalency that you should know to be false.

 

[Ziggurat]

I would think Cuba has some strict internet laws.

Cuba has internet?

 

[bruto]

I'm reading this thread and did not intend to post, but every time Synthetic Dave reads the title, I wince at the phrase passed on'. Passed on what to whom? Gone where? He is dead and I think euphmisms should be avoided, or outlawed, or something.

Okay, thank you, I've had my say!

I had the same reaction. The only mitigation is that someone like Castro would probably have hated it too.

 

[Jules Galen]

Are they any forum members who live in Cuba? I recall watching a TV show on the Travel Channel where they discussed how good the fishing was in Cuban waters due to the low numbers of fishing boats allowed. The show made it seem to be a prison island. I suppose it is if a person has to risk their life to leave.

Ranb

Hey...if the fishing is good, then why leave?

 

[Jim_MDP]

I wonder, on the whole , I am betting that the most damage to the Cuban people happened not through the torture, or loss of free speech - but through the economical embargo.

No, this is wrong. Cuba could trade freely with most of the world, and got significant subsidies from the USSR. Very little of its misery is attributable to the US trade embargo. Its own insane economic policies inflicted orders of magnitude more harm than the US not trading with it.

This puzzles me as well... someone correct me please...

Fidel loved to rail on over the US embargo, blaming it for virtually all of Cuba's ills.

But what effect did it have on citizens of any other nation?
Cuba was free to deal with anyone else, right? Including China 50 years ago, USSR/Russia the entire time, even North Korea (though I'm not sure what anyone would want from Lil' Kim or his family).
Not to mention Cuba sits just as close to Mexico and from there all of Central and South America.

And they certainly came out ahead snagging up all the Mob owned casinos, hotels and other properties when the hammer dropped.

So just what the hell devastating effect was there by not having US Americans invest and vacation there?

 

[Craig B]

This puzzles me as well... someone correct me please...

Fidel loved to rail on over the US embargo, blaming it for virtually all of Cuba's ills ...

And they certainly came out ahead snagging up all the Mob owned casinos, hotels and other properties when the hammer dropped.

So just what the hell devastating effect was there by not having US Americans invest and vacation there?

I'm sure that US hostility had an effect, even a very significant effect, on the Cuban economy. The question is whether the lamentable state of internal trade, consumption and finance in Cuba can be entirely ascribed to this US boycott. I don't think it can. Castro's economic policies were probably the major cause of these ills. And they were certainly A major cause.

Here are some reforms enacted in 2011, as permissions for previously prohibited economic activity. It gives a bizarre picture of what must have been going on prior to that.

Legalizing of 201 different personal business licenses
Fallow state land in usufruct leased to residents
Proposals for creation of non-agricultural cooperatives
Legalization of sale and private ownership of homes and cars
Gradual elimination of universal rationing
Possibility to rent state-run enterprises to self-employed, among them state restaurants​

 

[Ziggurat]

Revolutionary leaders usually do. Robespierre, Marat, Lenin, Castro, Che, were all upper middle class. To plan a revolution successfully, you need a lot of free time. Which poor people do not have.

Revolutionary heroes of the people all wear Rolex watches.

I'm also really enjoying the responses to Trudeau's eulogy. Sample:
"While a controversial figure, Pol Pot will be fondly remembered as the creator of Skull Jenga."

 

[Craig B]

Revolutionary heroes of the people all wear Rolex watches.

I'm also really enjoying the responses to Trudeau's eulogy. Sample:
"While a controversial figure, Pol Pot will be fondly remembered as the creator of Skull Jenga."

I think these comments are silly. The question of Castro's effect on Cuba and the world deserves more serious consideration. By some measures Cuba under Castro scored quite well, on others very badly. Health was good, availability of goods in shops was poor. Democratic rights and freedoms were restricted or absent. But the regime was nothing like as murderous as Cambodia under Pol Pot.

Ziggurat may be indulging in poorly thought out rightist triumphalism, inspired not by any important new intellectual or philosophical revelation, but by nothing more significant than the timely death of an aged ex-dictator.

 

[Ziggurat]

I think these comments are silly. The question of Castro's effect on Cuba and the world deserves more serious consideration. By some measures Cuba under Castro scored quite well, on others very badly. Health was good, availability of goods in shops was poor. Democratic rights and freedoms were restricted or absent. But the regime was nothing like as murderous as Cambodia under Pol Pot.

That's the bar you're setting? That he's better than Pol Pot?

I thought you said that the topic deserves serious consideration.

 

[Craig B]

That's the bar you're setting? That he's better than Pol Pot?

I thought you said that the topic deserves serious consideration.

It does

Edited by jsfisher: 

<snip> Edited for compliance with Rule 12 of the Membership Agreement.

 

[TriangleMan]

I think these comments are silly. The question of Castro's effect on Cuba and the world deserves more serious consideration. By some measures Cuba under Castro scored quite well, on others very badly. Health was good, availability of goods in shops was poor. Democratic rights and freedoms were restricted or absent. But the regime was nothing like as murderous as Cambodia under Pol Pot.

I was wondering if there's anyone here who has been to both Cuba and traveled extensively through Central America. It would be nice to have insight into how life in Cuba compared to the rest of the region. Your average Cuban was poor but I am not sure if the poverty compares to that found in other Central American countries. Was crime worse or better in Cuba? How about education and health care for the average citizen? It would be nice to hear from people who are familiar with the region.

 

[Ziggurat]

It does <snip>

<snip>

Edited by jsfisher: 

Moderated content and response to same redacted.

 

[portlandatheist]

Revolutionary heroes of the people all wear Rolex watches.

I'm also really enjoying the responses to Trudeau's eulogy. Sample:
"While a controversial figure, Pol Pot will be fondly remembered as the creator of Skull Jenga."

"Today we mourn painter and animal rights activist, Adolf Hitler. His death also highlights the need for suicide awareness"
#TrudeauEulogies

 

[John Jones]

Funny you thinks its because they have free time.

Curious what you thinks it because?