Care to Comment

[lapman]

Practice near zero. Small sim training. Didn't pointed the plane...

600 hours is near zero?

He got certificates even if...

Please provide proof that he got his, private, instrument and commercial certs illegally.

 

[achimspok]

I recall some report of fuel smell in the basement, as well as destroyed drywall and a tipped over 25ton* hydraulic press.

*Pressing capability, not weight.

Tipped over...?

Mike Pecorero: "There wasn't lot of screaming. There wasn't lot of yelling. Obviously there was no machinery. ... There was nothing there but rubble. We are talking about a 50 ton hydraulic press. Gone!"

...he sees a 300-pound steel and concrete fire door, which is lying on the floor, wrinkled up “like a piece of aluminum foil.”

Btw, the interpretation that he maybe meant the "*Pressing capability, not weight" is sheer nonsense. Such a press is that small that he probably would have mentioned some table drilling machine and the vacuum cleaner first. Your brutal sarcasm regarding the witnesses is harrowing.

Need a timeline?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4x0BSwF1qIU

 

[achimspok]

EDIT: Ah screw it... why leave a reply up to somebody I ignored right after posting?

Also... another addendum

I don't need to tell you things you already know (my patience just finally snapped) but I've given up on any hope that these people are capable of doing the few minutes of googling required to figure this stuff out. Not one of these CD proponents has shown any capacity to do it, ever. Until they learn it I see nothing that justifies taking them seriously anymore.

Did you realize how many times you and your cohorts already failed?
You are obviously not able to read witness account.
You are obviously not able to read the NIST report.
You are not able to read the FDR.

All you guys doing here is some convenient "feel good" distortion.

So how do you get the unburnt vapor down to B2 and B3 without toasting Cruz and Griffith? Have you said anything? Hallo?

 

[Toke]

Tipped over...?

Yes, it is just steel H-frame with a hydraulic cylinder and a handpump.
Lying down it would be no more than 1½feet tall and easy to overlook.

This have been covered years ago.

Here is a fancy model running on compressed air instead of hand pump.

 

[bill smith]

Did you realize how many times you and your cohorts already failed?
You are obviously not able to read witness account.
You are obviously not able to read the NIST report.
You are not able to read the FDR.

All you guys doing here is some convenient "feel good" distortion.

So how do you get the unburnt vapor down to B2 and B3 without toasting Cruz and Griffith? Have you said anything? Hallo?

Have you ever seen this video ? What do you make of it ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dWBBEtA5bI&NR=1

 

[BigAl]

Tipped over...?

Mike Pecorero: "There wasn't lot of screaming. There wasn't lot of yelling. Obviously there was no machinery. ... There was nothing there but rubble. We are talking about a 50 ton hydraulic press. Gone!"

...he sees a 300-pound steel and concrete fire door, which is lying on the floor, wrinkled up “like a piece of aluminum foil.”



Need a timeline?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4x0BSwF1qIU

No, you need a real complete quote.

Here's what Pecorero really said:

"When I walked out into the lobby, it was incredible," he recalled. "The whole lobby was soot and black, elevator doors were missing. The marble was missing off some of the walls. 20-foot section of marble, 20 by 10 foot sections of marble, gone from the walls". The west windows were all gone. They were missing. These are tremendous windows. They were just gone. Broken glass everywhere, the revolving doors were all broken and their glass was gone. Every sprinkler head was going off. I am thinking to myself, how are these sprinkler heads going off? It takes a lot of heat to set off a sprinkler head. It never dawned on me that there was a giant fireball that came through the air of the lobby. I never knew that until later on. The jet fuel actually came down the elevator shaft, blew off all the (elevator) doors and flames rolled through the lobby. That explained all the burnt people and why everything was sooted in the lobby."
http://www.chiefengineer.org/article.cfm?seqnum1=1029

And

...the room they were working in began to fill with a white smoke. “We smelled kerosene,” Mike recalled, “I was thinking maybe a car fire was upstairs”...
http://st12.startlogic.com/~xenonpup/underground/underground_explosions.htm

 

[achimspok]

No, you need a real complete quote.

Here's what Pecorero really said: ...

Yes, I know what he said. Obviously your "complete quote" lacks of the floors between B6 and Lobby. The soot he is talking about was also described by fire fighters. ...incinerated bodies.

He is perfectly describing what he saw after arriving in the inner core at lobby level. You can see it in the Naudet documentary.

Btw, how do you get the smell and white smoke down to B6? You have 3 possibilities to choose:
A) shaft #50A
B) stairwell
C) air condition
(I'm not sure but I guess the fresh air for the basement floors was sucked somewhere at ground level near West St)

Give me your expertise about the white smoke reaching the lower MER floors. BTW what is burning down there leaving white smoke? A jet fuel fireball?

 

[BigAl]

If you want to identify DNA you need some DNA of a first grade relative. Did the FBI ask Attas daddy for some spittle? I never heard about that. And btw which Atta? The one who tried to buy a crop duster in the US while the other Atta was observed by the CIA in Hamburg?

You know as little about DNA as you do about aviation. As of Feb 2003, the DNA of 10 if the hijackers has been matched.

Forensic experts in New York say they have identified body parts of two of the 10 hijackers who flew planes into the World Trade Center on 11 September 2001.
Ellen Borakove, a spokeswoman for the New York Medical Examiner's Office, said the identifications had been made using DNA samples provided by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI).

The FBI had collected the DNA from tiny traces of skin on the steering wheels of vehicles hired by the hijackers and from hair samples recovered from their hotel rooms.

Earlier this month, the FBI provided profiles of all 10 hijackers, including alleged ringleader Mohammad Atta, so their remains could be separated from those of victims.

"No names were attached to those profiles. We matched them, and we have matched two of those profiles to remains that we have," Ms Borakove said.

"We haven't finished our work, so it may be more," she added.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2808599.stm

 

[BigAl]

Yes, I know what he said. Obviously your "complete quote" lacks of the floors between B6 and Lobby. The soot he is talking about was also described by fire fighters. ...incinerated bodies.

He is perfectly describing what he saw after arriving in the inner core at lobby level. You can see it in the Naudet documentary.

Btw, how do you get the smell and white smoke down to B6? You have 3 possibilities to choose:
A) shaft #50A
B) stairwell
C) air condition

Dodge much?

Who cares? The towers reeked of jet fuel and nobody describes noises consistent with man-made demolition.

 

[Oystein]

You know as little about DNA as you do about aviation. As of Feb 2003, the DNA of 10 if the hijackers has been matched.

Psst: You may want to re-read your own quote: "... they have identified body parts of two of the 10 hijackers ..."

Also, one can be pedantic and point out that these identifications do not confirm the identity of the persons by linking them to their kin. They only confirm that the same two persons were on a plane and also in a car and a hotel room. The identities of those in the car and the hotel room could have been faked quite easily.

 

[AZCat]

Ryan, you really should take the log out of your own eye before making any claims that someone else isn't seeing things right.

During our Hardfire debate you constantly attempted to berate me concerning the energy absorbed by the columns during failure, saying that I was overestimating it due to my use of a factor of safety of 3.00 to 1 for the central core columns, which you claimed was much lower citing the NIST report and gloatingly stating that they don't make those kinds of errors. Although the actual in-service factor of safety of the core columns has been rigourously shown to be 3.00 to 1 in the months since then, you have failed to admit your error, despite entreaties to do so and correct the record.

You also claimed, during the debate, that the North Tower tilted 8 degrees before it started to descend. In the months since that has been shown to be thoroughly erroneous, as it has been found that the tilt of the upper section of the building was only about 1 degree when the hinge area on the north face broke and the entire upper section started to descend.

Will you finally go on record that you were wrong about these two things? It shouldn't be all that hard, as it seems the reason for your errors was your desire to unflinchingly accept the NIST report at face value, and most of us have been been guilty at times of uncritically accepting official pronouncements only to find out later they were wrong.

I nominate this post as "Most Ironic Post of the Year". Really - how are you going to top Tony Szamboti lecturing someone else on admitting mistakes?

 

[triforcharity]

Tipped over...?

Mike Pecorero: "There wasn't lot of screaming. There wasn't lot of yelling. Obviously there was no machinery. ... There was nothing there but rubble. We are talking about a 50 ton hydraulic press. Gone!"

...he sees a 300-pound steel and concrete fire door, which is lying on the floor, wrinkled up “like a piece of aluminum foil.”

Btw, the interpretation that he maybe meant the "*Pressing capability, not weight" is sheer nonsense. Such a press is that small that he probably would have mentioned some table drilling machine and the vacuum cleaner first. Your brutal sarcasm regarding the witnesses is harrowing.

Need a timeline?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4x0BSwF1qIU

So, you ACTUALLY believe that the press was literally, 50 tons? As opposed to the pressing capacity of 50 tons?

LOL!! HOLY ****!!

 

[BigAl]

Psst: You may want to re-read your own quote: "... they have identified body parts of two of the 10 hijackers ..."

Also, one can be pedantic and point out that these identifications do not confirm the identity of the persons by linking them to their kin. They only confirm that the same two persons were on a plane and also in a car and a hotel room. The identities of those in the car and the hotel room could have been faked quite easily.

Ooops. You are right. I mis-read this bit:

Earlier this month, the FBI provided profiles of all 10 hijackers, including alleged ringleader Mohammad Atta, so their remains could be separated from those of victims.

"No names were attached to those profiles. We matched them, and we have matched two of those profiles to remains that we have," Ms Borakove said.

 

[Dave Rogers]

Btw, the interpretation that he maybe meant the "*Pressing capability, not weight" is sheer nonsense. Such a press is that small that he probably would have mentioned some table drilling machine and the vacuum cleaner first.

Now this is one instance where Google actually yields something quite useful. I Googled "50-ton hydraulic press" and got a whole load of references to hydraulic presses with a 50-ton capacity, not a 50-ton weight. Here's the Clarke AHP50 50-ton workshop floor press, which I think has graced these forums before (because conspiracy theorists like to recycle long-debunked rubbish):



Overall dimensions are 1130 x 645 x 2280mm (WDH), so it's rather more than seven feet tall; a bit larger and more prominent than a vacuum cleaner or a table drill, don't you think? It's also rather tall and narrow, so it wouldn't be too hard to knock it over, and if it then got buried under rubble in a dust-laden atmosphere it could well appear to have just vanished.

On thing, though; just look at it, look at the dimensions, and think for a moment, if you can: it sure as hell doesn't weigh 50 tons. But it's what the term "50-ton hydraulic press" actually means; it's just not what conspiracy theorists want it to mean.

Dave

 

[achimspok]

So, you ACTUALLY believe that the press was literally, 50 tons? As opposed to the pressing capacity of 50 tons?

LOL!! HOLY ****!!

So you admitting that you believe Pecoraro was concerned about "tipping over" of something like this?

LOL!! HOLY ****!!

 

[bill smith]

So you admitting that you believe Pecoraro was concerned about "tipping over" of something like this?
[qimg]http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/2100/pressm.jpg[/qimg]

LOL!! HOLY ****!!

The 50-ton thing was played over and over on 9/11. I can remember it.

It gives an interesting insight into everything else he had to say.

 

[bill smith]

Now this is one instance where Google actually yields something quite useful. I Googled "50-ton hydraulic press" and got a whole load of references to hydraulic presses with a 50-ton capacity, not a 50-ton weight. Here's the Clarke AHP50 50-ton workshop floor press, which I think has graced these forums before (because conspiracy theorists like to recycle long-debunked rubbish):

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/147644c518737d2dc3.jpg[/qimg]

Overall dimensions are 1130 x 645 x 2280mm (WDH), so it's rather more than seven feet tall; a bit larger and more prominent than a vacuum cleaner or a table drill, don't you think? It's also rather tall and narrow, so it wouldn't be too hard to knock it over, and if it then got buried under rubble in a dust-laden atmosphere it could well appear to have just vanished.

On thing, though; just look at it, look at the dimensions, and think for a moment, if you can: it sure as hell doesn't weigh 50 tons. But it's what the term "50-ton hydraulic press" actually means; it's just not what conspiracy theorists want it to mean.

Dave

Haw haw haw Dave....you are a real card. ''Buried under rubble....'' Haw haw. You're killing me.....



I just think some of their material was so cheesy that you have to laugh..lol


I think most viewers would have pictured a massive 50-ton machine of some kind being destroyed like so much tinfoil ... as was the clear intention. People would rarely have thought of a machine not much bigger or heavier than their fridge or washing machine .

Read it again..This was on TV..

''...There was nothing there but rubble. We’re talking about a 50 ton hydraulic press—gone!”

 

[Andy_Ross]

Who did 9/11?

Why are you asking a question instead of answering? I know who controlled the aircraft. Terrosts.

Maybe per home calling system. There are several ways to do it.

And they are? Why wouldn't the groundcrews who regularly service and reapair aircraft notice this control system?

At breakfast? What an idiotic question...

Why is it idotic?

What do you think about the way a cruise missile hit? Do you think there is a boy with an antenna around turning little knobs?

I don't know that's why I asked, you are making the claim.
Do you think that the aircraft had cruise missile navigation systems?
How do cruise missiles navigate?

Because it is pretty difficult to find 20 young men who love to die and who love it over years and who face an immense future guilt they have to cope over years. ...having girlfriend in the meantime, watching table dance.
.

Well, the masses of suicide bombers around the world would disagree with you.
Some of those involved with 7/7 in London and numerous others that have blown themselves up in various parts of the world had wives or girlfriends.

 

[achimspok]

Haw haw haw Dave....

Let's say, even it we take the 50ton capacity we may expect something between a modern 30T

and a modern 80T

press. If it wasn't a new model then it was probably somewhat bigger.

 

[bill smith]

Let's say, even it we take the 50ton capacity we may expect something between a modern 30T
[qimg]http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/5341/30thydraulicpress.jpg[/qimg]
and a modern 80T
[qimg]http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/8926/80tonhydraulicpress.jpg[/qimg]
press. If it wasn't a new model then it was probably somewhat bigger.

Unlikely I suggest. I don't think that the WTC was involved in manufacturing that might require such a press. I'd say their press was for incidental use to do with maintenance . If they needed something unusual or fancy they could just order it from professional engineering companies. Much more cost effective that way.


BTW....I haven't worked it out yet .Are you a Truther .