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That's where I went loco :) Has to be just that...a reduction in the rate of acceleration. (as long as there's no velocity reduction during the period)

If there is a word for that, am all ears. (am fine with average and instantaneous)

eta: de-acceleration ? :)



As today is Wednesday, this will by my last post in this forum for one week.

But before I go, a small contribution:

The word you are looking for is Jerk.

It's the time rate of change of acceleration.


That said, a change of acceleration necessarily represents a change in force.
Which means any reduction in the acceleration of the upper block is indicative of a force applied to it in the direction opposite gravity. Which means the upper black is applying an increased force on whatever object it's impacting for the duration of the reduction in acceleration.
 
If WTC 1 was a natural collapse after falling one story, then why doesn't it show deceleration like the Verinage demolitions?
Verinage demolitions are set up so that the top falls horizontally, so all impacts are simultaneous. Did the top of WTC 1 fall horizontally?

It seems the only rational explanation for the lack of deceleration is that the column strength was largely removed prior to the collisions between stories.
Indeed the column strength was largely removed prior to the collisions between stories. The heating of the columns caused that. So, the only rational explanation is that the towers fell because of the fires and the damage to the insulation. Absent any trace of a clue of explosives of any kind, maintaining that explosives were used is just a question of faith.
 
If WTC 1 was a natural collapse after falling one story, then why doesn't it show deceleration like the Verinage demolitions?

The mother of all apples and oranges comparison. And coming from an engineer? Pathetic.

It has been shown that the small tilt cannot account for the lack of deceleration.

Stating it repeatedly is a far cry from using sound engineering to prove your point.

Guessed you missed that part?
 
As a simpleton in these matters I'd say that the maximum possible rate of acceleration was complete unobstructed free fall. That would be the metric. Anything below that would be called slowing down (commonly called deceleration by us simpletons).

While us simpletons don't understand all of your mathics explanations all too good with your X's and Y's (did you have to throw out those greek thingamajigs to throw us off even more?). We do get our simple physics from doing our roundie rounders with the eternal left turns in NASCAR.

Jeff Gordon, being a west coastie can never realize the true skills that a Southern man can drive like a moonshiner on ...

Aww man, I can't do this.

If you can't communicate within the basic terminology of the field that you want to communicate with you will never do well. You keep redefining what you're saying. I honestly have no clear vision of what you're trying to say. You have interchangeably used acceleration and velocity. Deceleration and speed. Your own posts have confused me as to what you mean to say.

Break it down and be consistent in your measurements. If you have a point it will be obvious. If you vacillate between measuring criteria you will never be taken seriously.

The choice is yours,

Respectfully,
SamIAm
 
Can you describe - at this moment of "first collision between stories" - your vision of what is hitting what within either building? Please include a description of the condition of the what and what prior to the collision, if you'd be so kind.

The first collision should have been largely column on column and over 90% of the columns in the 97th floor at the top of the lower section were undamaged, and none of those on the 99th floor at the bottom of the upper section were damaged.

The core fell because upper and lower column sections parted company. Once this has happened, and the columns have fallen even an inch, there is no way to match those parted column ends up again.

An engineer such as yourself should be able to do without analogies, but here's one. Take a long stick of spaghetti, upright on a table, and gradually increase the load on the upper end. It will eventually bend and snap, and the load will cause the upper section to fall. The ends will never match up again in order to resist that load.

Looks like you've taken the Bazantian image of a 'missing slice' of building a tad literally.
 
By the way, Jonathan Cole, a professional engineer whose video on this issue is the subject of this thread, has just put out an additional two part video on the issue aimed at helping those who might have a hard time understanding the principles involved. They are here
What was I supposed to learn exactly? I'm not sure the proper message got out. I learned about him the following:

The idea that a structure smaller than another part of itself cannot cause the collapse of a larger part of the same structure under any circumstance....

uoh.png


and the idea that an arbitrary stack of masonry blocks should represent the reaction of an entire building system:

richb.png


Shows that he does not consider the Square-Cube law, and example of which I elaborated on here almost a year ago.


I learned, from him how he thinks of the towers as solid blocks rather than systems:

uoh2.png


I learned he treats it as if it's a unified monolithic structure like this rock when discussing the 3rd law on a structural system


Here, I learned how he demonstrates the "stunning" similarities between small concrete framed construction and the towers:
inev.png



In Part 2 I learned he rehashes most of the no jolt "theory" and how the Verinage's idealist case scenario and entirely different construction should model the trade centers "if they were ""natural"" collapses"

I then learned how when a structure fails it is to be automatically assumed that explosives are responsible from his exquisite comment on the 2 second, 100 ft free drop of WTC7.

I learned from him the idea that a collapse initiation in a lower part of the building interior and the idea that a buckling column has negligible strength for support never enters the discussion. In fact it is apparently to be ignored without any explanation given as to why...

I learned from him that air pressure from a large collection of mass are actually the infamous "hush-a-booms"
hushaboom.png


And that when hush-a-booms fail, we can claim no evidence of high temperatures and that simultaneously there's evidence for a nano-thermite paint layer being applied throughout the entire building...

If these were the concepts to be discussed it's no wonder many of us are having a hard time understanding. I simply do not understand how this helps your case any, you literally chose a conceptual clone of Bjorkman's wackiest theories.... Throwing away the things I learned about the basics is somewhat impossible for me; I personally would not like the idea of being viewed as an incompetent idiot and have that affect my prospects at applying for a job which explicitly requires such understanding.
 
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Are these your behind-the-counter-at -McDonalds colleagues?

It seems you got the short end of any talent concerning making a strong argument for your point of view. It would probably be better if you stay quiet and hope nobody notices.
 
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Linguistic befuzzlement :) Fair enough. So it has to be called a reduction in acceleration.

I think Tony should state what he's talking about as a reduction in velocity. I'm fine with that ;)
Change in acceleration wrt time is a "jerk", or Jolt--which is what is missing (according to Tony...)
 
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It seems you got the short end of any talent concerning making a strong argument for your point of view. It would probably be better if you stay quiet and hope nobody notices.

What can I say in the face of such penetrating wit? I am a mere layman in these matters but I know there was no controlled demolition.Why you cannot see this too is a mystery to me.
 
I saw that Bjorkman's (AKA Heiwa's) theories are alive and well in other people. Maybe Cole will stack pizza boxes and lemons in the next video he produces.

It seems you got the short end of any talent concerning making a strong argument for your point of view. It would probably be better if you stay quiet and hope nobody notices.
That flashy video does nothing to help you, especially considering you've apparently endorsed it. If it's individuals like Cole, and Bjorkman that agree upon introduction to the so called conspiracy it's pretty obvious why they agree, but the whole education, and competence thing is a whole 'nother story, as the videos make patently clear to any sane individual.
 
Still no sign of modifications to the Szamboti and McQueen paper, I see. We've established beyond reasonable doubt that the raw data shows the exact features the analysis claims are absent, but it seems likely that they're noise artefacts from a dataset too poor to yield any reasonable conclusions. However, this doesn't appear to be a good enough reason to withdraw a paper, given that it reaches the conclusions the authors set out to reach before even starting to acquire the data. It appears that Messrs. Szamboti and McQueen believe that good science is what happens when your major screwups cancel each other out.

Dave
 
If WTC 1 was a natural collapse after falling one story, then why doesn't it show deceleration like the Verinage demolitions?

Different kind of building structure.



It has been shown that the small tilt cannot account for the lack of deceleration.

It seems the only rational explanation for the lack of deceleration is that the column strength was largely removed prior to the collisions between stories.

probably due to buckling and/or joint failure.............once the building started to move the forces involved would be way beyond the design strengths of both the beams and the joints. Its an extremely complex problem to model and there are so many variable and unknowns.
 
I know of no engineers who have looked at this and disagree with me other than the few on this forum, all of whom are anonymous except for Ryan Mackey, and he has been shown to be incorrect on the factor of safety of the core columns and the amount of tilt in WTC 1 when it begins its descent.

So then it should be simple to get a peer reviewed paper published in a legitimate journal about it, right Tony?

And you do know that Heiwa claims that in Verinage the lower parts of the buildings are destroyed first, and yet refuses to provide evidence of this right?
 
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I have always called a deceleration a reduction in velocity as opposed to a reduction in acceleration, where velocity is still being gained but at a lesser rate.

A reduction in acceleration does not provide for load amplification, which is necessary in a natural collapse of a structure with a reserve strength several times the load it is carrying.

If there is any confusion on this it shouldn't be due to my terminology, but that of those who are either confused themselves or attempting to confuse others on the issue.

Confusing? I know what happened on 9/11.You appear to be the confused one.
 
So tell us how WTC 7 fell at freefall acceleration and WTC 1 without any deceleration during impacts between stories oh great one.
WTC 7 fell at near free-fall for only a short amount of time and WTC 1 did in fact show signs of deceleration (you only choose to define the term differently).
 

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