Cont: Cancel culture IRL Part 2

[angrysoba]

I've seen a lot of people bad mouthing Bari Weiss, and I really don't know why. I've read some of their articles. Some are okay, some are boring, some are annoying. They don't seem like a wingnut or anything.

What's the backstory on why they get such derision?

Bari Weiss is ridiculed as someone who is basically making a career of arguing that you can't say that anymore or you get cancelled.

She worked for the New York Times and wrote a big spread about the "Intellectual Dark Web" featuring all the great and the good - Eric Weinstein, Bret Weinstein, Joe Rogan, David Rubins, Sam Harris, Michael Shermer, Christina Hoff Sommers, etc...

At this point you will probably say, "I have never heard of any of them!" and that's the point. Her New York Times spread revealed that they had all been cancelled for their "controversial" ideas.

Then she quit the NYT because, er... she had been cancelled (by herself, I suppose). That's why she was complaining on CNN about how she was silenced by CNN.

I think people bash her because she is a one-trick pony. She says essentially the same thing over and over again (much like the rest of the IDW) which is. wait for it:

There is no such thing as systemic oppression against minorities. The only oppression is against people like me and my buddies who are always getting ourselves cancelled. These days, if you say you're English you get locked up and thrown in jail! We've been murdered (not literally obviously!). We are oppressed! We are the real truthseekers! this is like Communist China or Nazi Germany! Like totes!

The fact that saying she is oppressed is pretty much her career and that of the "IDW" only shows the opposite of what she claims. The word for this is "grifter".

 

[Emily's Cat]

I've heard of a few of those. I rather enjoy Joe Rogan. He gets an interesting variety of people on his podcast. Although... I rarely have the 3 hours to devote to it.

 

[dirtywick]

I think Joe Rogan has some really good content, but he also hosts plenty of cranks and treats them like they’re not cranks and has said some controversial things on his show. And he’s been criticized for doing so, which I think is fair. I think that’s a good example of the conflation of criticism and cancel culture and why the term is so loaded that it’s useless.

 

[angrysoba]

I've heard of a few of those. I rather enjoy Joe Rogan. He gets an interesting variety of people on his podcast. Although... I rarely have the 3 hours to devote to it.

I think Joe Rogan has some really good content, but he also hosts plenty of cranks and treats them like they’re not cranks and has said some controversial things on his show. And he’s been criticized for doing so, which I think is fair. I think that’s a good example of the conflation of criticism and cancel culture and why the term is so loaded that it’s useless.

Yeah, there was a time when I was starting to think Rogan was quite good. He seemed to be listening to and learning from some of his smarter guests and generally moving away from the conspiracy theories that he had bought into in the past. However, in the pandemic, he has really leaned hard into some of the worst alternative medicine theories and given an airing to "cancelled" Bret Weinstein (who actually still has a You Tube account but got his videos advocating Ivermectin demonetized when all content providers get their Ivermectin and Covid-19 hot takes demonetized on You Tube).

 

[d4m10n]

Rogan doesn't really ask hard questions or do much homework so his shows are generally about as good as his guests.

(Nice work if you can get it.)

 

[jt512]

I've seen a lot of people bad mouthing Bari Weiss, and I really don't know why.

That's an easy one: she supports Israel.

 

[angrysoba]

That's an easy one: she supports Israel.

Too right! No way you could work at the New York Times if you support Israel.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I wonder what Bari Weiss will make of this….



https://www.theguardian.com/comment...mestic-violence-racism?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Ah finally he can do battle with the jews who cause all the wars in the world yet again!

 

[d4m10n]

Netflix walkout trending

Apparently they didn't cancel some comedian enough.

https://twitter.com/search?q=#NetflixWalkout&src=trend_click&vertical=trends

https://twitter.com/AshleeMPreston/status/1450151113978572800

 

[smartcooky]

Apparently they didn't cancel some comedian enough.

https://twitter.com/search?q=#NetflixWalkout&src=trend_click&vertical=trends

https://twitter.com/AshleeMPreston/status/1450151113978572800

Here's the letter from Netflix Employees... it reads as a list of demands. See if you can spot something that is absent from that list.

Over the past few weeks, it has become clear that there are many places where Netflix still has to grow when it comes to content relating to the trans and non-binary community. The Trans* Employee Resource Group, which includes trans and non-binary colleagues as well as our numerous allies, wants Netflix to immediately take the steps below to begin to repair the relationship between the Company, our colleagues, and our audience. Specifically, we want the Company to adopt measures in the areas of Content Investment, Employee Relations and Safety, and Harm Reduction, all of which are necessary to avoid future instances of platforming transphobia and hate speech, and to account for the harm we have caused and will continue to cause until the below measures are put in place.

1. Content Investment
Create a new fund to specifically develop trans and non-binary talent

○ This fund should support both above-the-line (ATL) and below-the-line (BTL) talent;

○ This fund should exist in addition to the existing Creative Equity Fund;

Increase investment in trans and non-binary content on Netflix comparable to our total investment in transphobic content, including marketing and promotion;

Invest in multiple trans creators to make both scripted and unscripted programs across genres;

Revise internal processes on commissioning and releasing potential harmful (“sensitive”) content, including but not limited to involving parties who are a part of the subject community and can speak to potential harm, or consulting with 3rd party experts/vendors;

Increase the ERG role in conversations around potentially harmful content and ensure we have best in class regional support on complicated intersectional diversity issues;

Hire trans and non-binary content executives, especially BIPOC, in leading
positions;

2. Employee Relations and Safety
Recruit trans people, especially BIPOC, for leadership roles in the company (Director, VP, etc.) and promote an inclusive environment for them;

Allow employees to remove themselves from previous company promotional content (e.g. allyship and diversity videos, etc.);

Eliminate references/imagery of transphobic titles or talent inside of the workplace, including but not limited to murals, posters, room names, swag;

3. Harm Reduction
Acknowledge the harm and Netflix’s responsibility for this harm from transphobic content, and in particular harm to the Black trans community;

Add a disclaimer before transphobic titles that specifically flag transphobic language, misogyny, homophobia, hate speech, etc. as required;

Boost promotion for Disclosure and other trans-affirming titles in the platform;

Suggest trans-affirming content alongside and after content flagged as anti-trans.

We are employees, but we are members, too. We believe that this Company can and must do better in our quest to entertain the world, and that the way forward must include more diverse voices in order to avoid causing more harm.

The Trans* ERG looks forward to working with the Company to make this a better, more entertaining place for us all.

Sincerely-

Trans* Netflix​

Well, did you spot the missing "demand"?
.
.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I think Joe Rogan has some really good content, but he also hosts plenty of cranks and treats them like they’re not cranks and has said some controversial things on his show. And he’s been criticized for doing so, which I think is fair. I think that’s a good example of the conflation of criticism and cancel culture and why the term is so loaded that it’s useless.

I recommend you watch some of the episodes where Rogan has like actual for-realsies racists on. They're surprisingly entertaining. Joe doesn't *have* to treat them like cranks... they come across as off their rockers all by themselves.

The episode with Tommy Chong ended up being like that too. Chong has definitely smoked way too much weed over the years, and they believe some really crazy stuff now. But Rogan treated him decently, and pretty much just let the crazy be observed by viewers.

And some of the cranks come across as a lot less wacky when you actually listen to them in conversation too. Granted, there will undoubtedly be topics on which you and Rogan disagree, probably even strongly. But I always admire how they treat their guests on the shows, regardless of whether Rogan agrees with them or not. They are still civil and decent about it.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Here's the letter from Netflix Employees... it reads as a list of demands. See if you can spot something that is absent from that list.

...


Well, did you spot the missing "demand"?
.
.

Common sense and tolerance?

 

[dirtywick]

I mostly enjoy when he talks with athletes and comedians, things he has some knowledge in and is able to use it to get some insight out of his guests that other interviewers can't. That said, it's not that I personally have a problem with how he treats his guests, it's his show and he produces a particular type of content that a lot of people enjoy and I think that's fine.

What I am doing is acknowledging it's fair for others to feel differently and I think valid criticism can be made against him for some of the guests he hosts, how little he challenges them on things he knows are questionable or outright false, and thing he himself has said in the past that are either incorrect or offensive to some people.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I mostly enjoy when he talks with athletes and comedians, things he has some knowledge in and is able to use it to get some insight out of his guests that other interviewers can't. That said, it's not that I personally have a problem with how he treats his guests, it's his show and he produces a particular type of content that a lot of people enjoy and I think that's fine.

What I am doing is acknowledging it's fair for others to feel differently and I think valid criticism can be made against him for some of the guests he hosts, how little he challenges them on things he knows are questionable or outright false, and thing he himself has said in the past that are either incorrect or offensive to some people.

I think it's silly to expect that Joe, or anyone else, should be expected to never offend people. At the very least, there are some people who look for any excuse to be offended. But mostly, some people need to grow up.

People on here say stuff that offends me all the damned time. I get called names, I get all sorts of degrading and dehumanizing insinuations tossed my way. If "being offended" is a justifiable argument for getting someone else to stfu, then a whole lot of people on ISF should be gagged at this point.

 

[dirtywick]

Oh, I don’t expect Joe Rogan, or anyone else, to never offend anyone. It’s that when they do, they’re going to hear about it. And why shouldn’t they? Only Joe Rogan gets to have an opinion? Telling people to grow up and stop complaining because they’re offended by something you feel they shouldn’t be isnt even that dissimilar to be honest.

But, Joe Rogan doesn’t have to accept or apologize or even listen to the criticism and complaints either. I think it’s still fair for anyone to have an opinion on Joe Rogan and say what it is

Anyway, I don’t think enduring abuse on the principal that being offended is somehow not an acceptable reason to speak up is a great approach. If it works for you, which it doesn’t sound like it is, great. I don’t think it’s a universally accepted idea, or often even a good one. If someone does something that bothers you, maybe you should tell them.

 

[smartcooky]

Common sense and tolerance?

Nope, what they are demanding IS commonsense and tolerance - the demand you don't see is for Dave Chappelle to be cancelled! The claim that this comedian is being cancelled is complete and utter bull-****. No such thing is happening. Those who are protesting his transphobic comments are not trying to cancel him, they are trying to address the shortcomings of a workplace that is intolerant of them.

People have no control over whether they are trans, or gay or identify as a different gender to their physiological sex at birth. Its not a disease or an ailment of any kind. They are who they are, and its something they cannot do anything about. They should not be discriminated against because of it.

They want their workplace to be the way society should be, a place where being transexual or gay or gender neutral, is simply accepted as normal, and uncontroversial, where there is nothing to see here, where being these things is not even a topic of conversation.. where it simply is what it is.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

The play's the thing at Coastal Carolina University

FIRE

“I hope my story can salvage some measure of integrity in higher education,” said Earnest. “Universities must give more weight to the devastating, long-term effects of their actions on hard-working career academics like myself than they do to the short-term pleasure of being perceived as ‘right’ in the eyes of a small but vocal group of students.”

The linked story is a little too complex to summarize easily. I would like to highlight one aspect of this incident, namely the outrage that the students claimed to feel. I respectfully but strongly question whether the students really were as upset by this as their words and actions suggest. That goes double for the boulder that the University of Wisconsin moved (see upthread). Some have dubbed this performance art. That's a little too kind IMO.

 

[d4m10n]

No such thing is happening.

Literally no one has demanded that Chappelle be out of work from now on? Quite a bold claim.

Glad to see Netflix employees have crafted a set of reasonable demands which don't include censorship, but that's a pretty small subset of the people making demands here.

 

[angrysoba]

I think it's silly to expect that Joe, or anyone else, should be expected to never offend people. At the very least, there are some people who look for any excuse to be offended. But mostly, some people need to grow up.

People on here say stuff that offends me all the damned time. I get called names, I get all sorts of degrading and dehumanizing insinuations tossed my way. If "being offended" is a justifiable argument for getting someone else to stfu, then a whole lot of people on ISF should be gagged at this point.

FWIW, I don't claim to be "offended" by Rogan. I listen to him from time to time depending on who is on.

What I criticize him for (please note that people should still be able to criticize without it being claimed that it is a "cancellation" attempt) is when he gets cranks on, such as at the height of a pandemic, for an "emergency podcast" to cast doubt on vaccines and promote unproven "cures" such as ivermectin and have people claim that it is a "near-perfect" prophylactic. For some reason, he thinks Bret Weinstein is some genius scientist when he was nothing more than a biology teacher at a small liberal arts college. He deserves criticism for that, and people peddling "miracle cures" should have their videos demonetized by YouTube!

 

[angrysoba]

Literally no one has demanded that Chappelle be out of work from now on? Quite a bold claim.

Glad to see Netflix employees have crafted a set of reasonable demands which don't include censorship, but that's a pretty small subset of the people making demands here.

No doubt some people have called for Chappelle's show to be pulled. But we are talking here about the Internet. There is no opinion that cannot be found on the Internet. But not only is he not in serious danger of being pulled, the publicity will be good for his viewing figures.