Cont: Cancel culture IRL Part 2

[dirtywick]

He hasn't found a sophistry he doesn't like yet if he thinks it sounds clever.

Not that I find that some kind of thing to cancel him over. Could you imagine? Unless that criticism alone is canelling him.

I think some would consider the criticism alone an attempted cancellation if it suited them

 

[mumblethrax]

Not that I find that some kind of thing to cancel him over. Could you imagine? Unless that criticism alone is canelling him.

I suppose it depends on what you mean by cancellation. I wouldn't mind seeing his star a little dimmed for this--talking cogently about critical thinking is something a science communicator should be able to do. A few less bookings on talk shows, maybe?

He does provide a good illustration of why I think it's weird when people on the left celebrate so many of these cases. When Tyson was accused by a handful of women of sexual impropriety, he got an 'internal investigation' that ultimately cleared him. When Karen there gets accused of being a racist, outside of any work context, she just gets summarily fired. Nobody even considered the fact that this happened in Williamsburg, so there's at least a 20% chance she was being ironically racist.

 

[d4m10n]

I did not rule it out, I just place no weight on it because, as I said previously it was just "pure, idle speculation on your part, and for which you have not a single scrap of evidence in support".

Of course it is speculation, since none of us heard what the woman actually said. Somehow you seem convinced that you know what she actually said, and why she said it, and that your preferred scenario is not speculative.

 

[pgwenthold]

Wait… are we supposed to be anti-anti-racist now?

I was just reading last night that a school board has admonished a teacher for having a book called "This Book is Anti-Racist" in the classroom.

Yep, the majority of the school board is literally anti-anti-racist.

 

[lobosrul5]

Dorian Abbot canceled from MIT:
https://twitter.com/McCormickProf/status/1444738353845489664

Happy ending for Princeton, though.
https://twitter.com/McCormickProf/status/1445108465744191507

Is twitter down or is it just me?

I get a page with the words "Something went wrong. Try reloading." after clicking both links.

 

[catsmate]

Dorian Abbot canceled from MIT:
https://twitter.com/McCormickProf/status/1444738353845489664

The whackjob who compared diversity to fascism?

 

[Emily's Cat]

I think they might argue that “just not being racist” is quietist.

They might, but it's a dumb argument.

"Hey, I'm going to go set that person on fire, they're a witch! Wanna come with?"

"No, I don't really approve of setting people on fire, even if you think they're witches."

"Then you're just as bad and now I'm going to set you on fire too!!!!!!!!"

It's a bit of a Mongol Hoard "Join or Die" approach.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Oh, yeah. That's really worked well for the last 250 years hasn't it?

Ignoring them, won't make them go away. A lack of consequences for being a racist will encourage and embolden them!

Actually, it worked REALLY well since the 60s. It still works well, at least for most people who have a bit of sense about it.

On the other hand, if one defines anyone who doesn't jump on the bandwagon to go intimidate people as being a racist, well, maybe not. But then, that's a matter of redefining words to mean whatever one wants them to mean so one can justify ones authoritarian approach, rather than actual objective reasoning.

 

[lobosrul5]

Actually, it worked REALLY well since the 60s. It still works well, at least for most people who have a bit of sense about it.

On the other hand, if one defines anyone who doesn't jump on the bandwagon to go intimidate people as being a racist, well, maybe not. But then, that's a matter of redefining words to mean whatever one wants them to mean so one can justify ones authoritarian approach, rather than actual objective reasoning.

Wow this reminds me greatly of a conversation I had with my mom. Essentially it became clear to me that she thinks her generation "solved racism" in the 60's. To summarize back then when she participated in student marches it was for "real racism" and these BLM people have never even experienced "real racism" so they just need to go home and stop making such a fuss. As if she is the arbiter of what's bad enough to protest and what isn't.

 

[smartcooky]

Of course it is speculation, since none of us heard what the woman actually said. Somehow you seem convinced that you know what she actually said, and why she said it, and that your preferred scenario is not speculative.

We have confirmation from the witness, on video.

 

[smartcooky]

Actually, it worked REALLY well since the 60s.

If you truly believe this, then you are delusional. The only it has fixed is leglised racism.

There is still plenty of racism out there - as Will Smith rightly said, "...racism isn't getting worse, its getting filmed"

 

[Emily's Cat]

If you truly believe this, then you are delusional. The only it has fixed is leglised racism.

There is still plenty of racism out there - as Will Smith rightly said, "...racism isn't getting worse, its getting filmed"

You're kidding, right? Do you genuinely believe that social interactions with respect to race are just as bad or worse than they were in the 60s? It's not even comparable!

Yes, there is still racism out there. There probably will always be some, at least until we're all a lovely shade of ambiguity brown. But the volume and the magnitude is significantly smaller than it was 60 years ago.

 

[Elaedith]

You're kidding, right? Do you genuinely believe that social interactions with respect to race are just as bad or worse than they were in the 60s? It's not even comparable!

Yes, there is still racism out there. There probably will always be some, at least until we're all a lovely shade of ambiguity brown. But the volume and the magnitude is significantly smaller than it was 60 years ago.

Yes, surveys of social attitudes generally show very substantial reductions in racist attitudes (e.g. whether it is acceptable to discriminate based on race, whether one would mind having Black people as neighbours etc.) over time, with a few blips.

However, there is no reason why we should believe that any theory, idea, practice or policy put forward as 'anti-racist' will further improve anything if the proponents of such ideas attempt to shield their ideas from criticism by inflicting punitive 'consequences' on critics.

 

[d4m10n]

We have confirmation from the witness, on video.

The on-camera part shows up in my hypothetical, word for word. The question remains whether the bystander was confirming a paraphrase or an exact quote.

Once again, here is my hypothetical, but for the sake of clarity I've italicized the (off-camera) hypothetical dialogue:

Canceled woman: Go back to Long Island City and stay there!

Frederick Joseph: Did she not just tell us to stay in our hood?

Random bystander: She did.

In this scenario, the unnamed bystander is confirming that Mr. Joseph has paraphrased the canceled woman's demand substantively correctly.

Why are you confident that this scenario is so unlikely that you feel comfortable in publicly demanding that the young woman in question ought to lose her livelihood and health insurance?

 

[Elaedith]

The on-camera part shows up in my hypothetical, word for word. The question remains whether the bystander was confirming a paraphrase or an exact quote.

Once again, here is my hypothetical, but for the sake of clarity I've italicized the (off-camera) hypothetical dialogue:

Canceled woman: Go back to Long Island City and stay there!

Frederick Joseph: Did she not just tell us to stay in our hood?

Random bystander: She did.

In this scenario, the unnamed bystander is confirming that Mr. Joseph has paraphrased the canceled woman's demand substantively correctly.

Why are you confident that this scenario is so unlikely that you feel comfortable in publicly demanding that the young woman in question ought to lose her livelihood and health insurance?

As I understand it, this was an argument because she thought Joseph was bringing a noisy aggressive dog into the park. She admitted saying something to this effect (I'm not sure of the exact words) and says she was referring to removing the dog to a different area. If she did use those words it was a stupid choice of words, but given Joseph's history as a professional grievance monger I would also suspect he did everything possible to escalate the argument in the hope of getting some good material.

 

[smartcooky]

You're kidding, right? Do you genuinely believe that social interactions with respect to race are just as bad or worse than they were in the 60s?

You go ask the families of the hundreds of unarmed black people gunned down and murdered by white cops in the last 50 years if they think things have gotten much better.

All that is happened is that legislated racism ended* and what once used to be overt racism is now covert racism. Its the same demographic doing the same thing, white males mostly, in the south. The KKK hasn't gone away, its gone underground. They were pretty much the only game in town back then. Now there are more white supremacist organisations with a larger overall following that the KKK ever had....

11th Hour Remnant Messenger
American Renaissance
American Freedom Party
American Nazi Party
Aryan Brotherhood of Texas
Aryan Republican Army was a white nationalist terrorist organization.
Aryan Nations
Asatru Folk
Atomwaffen Division
Council of Conservative Citizens
Creativity Alliance
EURO,
Hammerskin Nation
Identity Evropa
National Alliance
National Association for the Advancement of White People
National Policy Institute
National Vanguard
Nationalist Movement
Occidental Quarterly
The Order, or Brüder Schweigen
Pacifica Forum
Patriot Front
Phineas Priesthood
Pioneer Fund
Vanguard America
Volksfront
White America, Inc
White Aryan Resistance

Yes, there is still racism out there. There probably will always be some, at least until we're all a lovely shade of ambiguity brown. But the volume and the magnitude is significantly smaller than it was 60 years ago.

Not significantly enough.




* You can make a very good argument that voter suppression laws being enacted in red states is racism because it is clearly aimed at suppressing voting by non-whites),

 

[smartcooky]

The on-camera part shows up in my hypothetical, word for word. The question remains whether the bystander was confirming a paraphrase or an exact quote.

What we have on video is the default, and is confirmed by the witness.

Your fantasy paraphrase was made up by you and based on... nothing but your own desire to minimize. You're looking for any excuse to excuse the racist.

 

[Emily's Cat]

You go ask the families of the hundreds of unarmed black people gunned down and murdered by white cops in the last 50 years if they think things have gotten much better.

As opposed to the tens of thousands of unarmed black people gunned down and murdered by white cops and civilians in the 50 years prior to that?

Do you even know any black people who are older than 30? My dad is 70, his mom is still kicking at 88, as are a dozen aunts and uncles in the 70 to 100 range.

Yes, it has definitely gotten better.

 

[smartcooky]

As I understand it, this was an argument because she thought Joseph was bringing a noisy aggressive dog into the park. She admitted saying something to this effect (I'm not sure of the exact words) and says she was referring to removing the dog to a different area. If she did use those words it was a stupid choice of words, but given Joseph's history as a professional grievance monger I would also suspect he did everything possible to escalate the argument in the hope of getting some good material.

This is victim blaming.

There is a really easy way to foil your so-called "grievance mongers"... don't be a ******* racist; don't say racist things... ever. Don't give them the ammunition!

 

[smartcooky]

As opposed to the tens of thousands of unarmed black people gunned down and murdered by white cops and civilians in the 50 years prior to that?

Pure whataboutism!

Do you even know any black people who are older than 30? My dad is 70, his mom is still kicking at 88, as are a dozen aunts and uncles in the 70 to 100 range.

Yes, as it happens, quite a few actually.

Yes, it has definitely gotten better.

Not by much


I note that you failed to address the rest of the post.