Canadian Heathcare system sucks!!

[Rolfe]

So you are objecting the semantics? What about the point?

To me, "billable" implies an actual invoice, and actual money winging its way around the system (virtually or actually). If we said, this still consumes taxpayer-funded resources, then yes, that puts it better.

And I agree, it was a silly story.

Rolfe.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Under a UHC, like the NHSs of the UK, what happens is that the public pretty much gets what they campaign for.

And sadly, the public can be duped with million dollar ad campaigns just as the politicians can be paid off by campaign donations.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

It won't be phrased that way. It will be phrased as, "we can give you this if we raise someone else's taxes".

One of the things being left out of this equation is all the money currently going into the system to pay health insurance premiums. If the plan includes provisions to lower private insurance premiums as the unreimbursed costs get reimbursed, then all you would be doing is shifting costs from some individuals who are providing welfare through their insurance premiums to a more equitable system via taxes everyone pays, not taking more money from people. Right now these uninsured people are getting health care at the expense of people who pay for theirs.


Hospital Deports Patient

Jimenez spent nearly three years at Martin Memorial before the hospital, backed by a letter from the Guatemalan government, got a Florida judge to OK the transfer to a facility in that country. Gaspar appealed.
But without telling Jimenez's family — and the day after Gaspar filed an emergency request to stop the hospital's plan — Martin Memorial put Jimenez on a $30,000 charter flight home early on July 10, 2003.
Weeks later, Jimenez was released from the Guatemalan hospital and soon wound up in his aging mother's one-room home in a remote mountain village.

The problem, without health insurance the hospital could not find a nursing home to transfer the patient to. The hospital was required to treat him when he arrived in the ED. (Sad story, hit by a drunk driver.) But 3 years later he was a nursing home patient the hospital had to care for. And who pays that expense now?



Forget for a minute this is a bad example because of the illegal immigration status. This case made the news because of the deportation of the patient. There are other patients in other hospitals with the same circumstances. Some of them go to nursing homes under medicaid or SSI disability. But others are inefficiently managed by hospitals who can't discharge the patients. The debt is passed on to other consumers.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

...

USA folk - what is the national cervical smears screening programme?

Depends on your insurance coverage. Here's another place where we pay for treating cancers that could have been prevented at the earliest stage for very little cost.

I belong to an HMO coop. We get reminders for most routine tests but they are switching to a more 'patient is responsible to check' system because they've switched to so much Internet service from paper notices.

 

[volatile]

Depends on your insurance coverage.

In response to certain anti-UHC commentators then, it seems legitimate to claim that "The UK has routine healthcare procedures that are not common the the USA", rather than the inverse.

 

[pgwenthold]

I can vouch for the fact that Gatineau is a medical hellhole. Even the freaking walk-in clinics are not accepting new patients... Fortunately, on the other side of the Ottawa river, there are no such problems. No wonder everyone on the Quebec side ends up going to Monfort Hospital. But Gatineau is an embarassing exception, even in Quebec. Yet I have to admit Ontario healthcare seems much better organized. Then again, when I was in Waterloo, all my students with medical issues would go get treatment in Toronto rather than at the only local hospital in Kitchener. Just to highlight that the "scary" "socialist" Canadian system varies a lot by province and region.

But we prefer the Merican system, where we can chose our own doctors.

Chose from the list of doctors who participate in our work provided health plan, that is. Provided they are taking new patients. There could be a clinic across the street from your house, but if they aren't part of your health care plan, you have to pay to go there.

 

[volatile]

But we prefer the Merican system, where we can chose our own doctors.

Chose from the list of doctors who participate in our work provided health plan, that is. Provided they are taking new patients. There could be a clinic across the street from your house, but if they aren't part of your health care plan, you have to pay to go there.

I live in the UK, and I can choose my own doctor.

 

[Rolfe]

You can change doctors at will. My parents' doctor insulted my father, and they decided to change to someone else. The original doctor was annoyed to be losing two patients - he actually said "I'm trying to build up a practice here." Because, of course, he's paid according to how many patients are on his list. Another practice with offices in the same health centre premises were happy to take my parents on.

Doctors can refuse patients who are very disruptive, though it sedom happens that someone can't find any practice to take them on. If that does happen, however, the NHS is obliged to find a doctor for them. I'm not quite sure how they do this, but I seem to remember that professors at medical schools were having their arms twisted to take one or two patients like that.

Anyway, you can go to any doctor who will have you, who runs an NHS practice. Which is really, every GP in the country apart from a few incredibly well-heeled ghettos.

 

[Rolfe]

For the right definition of "require", I suppose that's true. And yet, at least some UK citizens are stating that their expectations are lower.
http://www.pjtv.com/video/Washington_Watch/Socialized_Medicine_Through_the_Eyes_of_a_Recipient/2169/
Yes, this is anecdotal. But when you make a categorical claim (as you did), all it takes is one anecdote to disprove it.

Ziggurat, you chose to post this. It has now been examined in detail.

Leaving aside the stated political affiliations of the woman herself, and the broadcaster, the story itself was as weak as a homoeopath's flu cure.

The woman clearly hadn't lived in Britain for many years, and was recounting vague memories from (probably) the 1960s. Just about every fact she stated was verifiably wrong, but she hadn't even bothered to check whether she was speaking the truth.

The rest of it was just stock right-wing rhetoric, fed back and forwards between her and the presenter. We've critiqued it in detail, and explained what a pack of lies it is.

Why did you pick up on that "anecdote" (though I wouldn't dignify it with that description either)? I posted links to a couple of factual news articles demonstrating the actual high quality of care given by the NHS. I also started a thread about the quality of NHS and other universal healthcare systems.

Would you care to comment? Do you still think the woman in the pink blouse has anything to contribute to the debate? Do you realise how much misinformation and black propaganda is being put out by the US government's opponents in this area?

Rolfe.

 

[Alt+F4]

Question here for our friends living in the UK, Canada or any other country that has some sort of universal health care: Would a woman in active labor or a gun shot victim be turned away from an emergency room due to the fact they were an illegal immigrants?

Thanks in advance for replies, sorry if this was asked before.

 

[Architect]

No, not in the UK AFAIK. But after it's all over you might find yourself accompanied by a couple of gentlemen from the immigration service very keen to ask you a few questions and provide a free plane ticket back home.

 

[Delscottio]

Question here for our friends living in the UK, Canada or any other country that has some sort of universal health care: Would a woman in active labor or a gun shot victim be turned away from an emergency room due to the fact they were an illegal immigrants?

Thanks in advance for replies, sorry if this was asked before.

Gun shot victim nope, active labour? Depends on how active and her history - when my wife was pregnant the hospitals seemed pretty strict when they admitted them, but as she had a previous C section it was gold plated service all the way. But she wouldn't be turned away on her immigration status more her clinical need.

 

[Rolfe]

Question here for our friends living in the UK, Canada or any other country that has some sort of universal health care: Would a woman in active labor or a gun shot victim be turned away from an emergency room due to the fact they were an illegal immigrants?

Thanks in advance for replies, sorry if this was asked before.

Zero chance. I'm not even all that sure if the medics would shop someone to immigration. It's possible, but I seem to remember some sort of conflict where the police were asking pretty please could they be informed about injuries that suggested knife crime, and the doctors said no, go away.

Rolfe.

 

[Delscottio]

Gun shot victim nope, active labour? Depends on how active and her history - when my wife was pregnant the hospitals seemed pretty strict when they admitted them, but as she had a previous C section it was gold plated service all the way. But she wouldn't be turned away on her immigration status more her clinical need.

Just to clarify if the hospital had had no previous dealings with the woman no way would she be sent away.

 

[Rolfe]

It used to be the case that if you were actually breathing British air, you'd get treated no questions asked at all. There was no billing system, and no way of even finding out how much any particular person's care should be priced at. It was easier just to give it away to a few stray holidaymakers or whatever.

Unfortunately this led to people showing up with everything from 3rd stage labour to AIDS, specifically to take advantage of this. Also, someone started to work out how much money the NHS was actually due from people with insurance - people injured in car accidents where the motor insurance should cover it, and stuff like that. So some people do find themselves presented with bills these days - or their insurance companies do.

It's still unthinkable that anyone in urgent need of treatment would be turned away though, for any reason.

Rolfe.

 

[ponderingturtle]

What does this have to do with the discussion?

Discussion: "The claim was made the public sector has a competitive advantage because they pay people less than people earn in the private sector."

And what else being discussed here has to do with health care sucking in canada?

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

I live in the UK, and I can choose my own doctor.

I think that pgwenthold's post was missing a smiley or two.

 

[Eskarina]

Question here for our friends living in the UK, Canada or any other country that has some sort of universal health care: Would a woman in active labor or a gun shot victim be turned away from an emergency room due to the fact they were an illegal immigrants?

Thanks in advance for replies, sorry if this was asked before.

No for Germany. Illegal immigrants aren't covered by the German UHC, but doctors and hospitals can't turn away any patient in need of emergency care.

They don't even have to report illegal immigrants to the authorities, but if they want reimbursement for their services, they have to apply to the "social welfare office" (Sozialamt), which has to report the illegal immigrant.

 

[ponderingturtle]

No for Germany. Illegal immigrants aren't covered by the German UHC, but doctors and hospitals can't turn away any patient in need of emergency care.

They don't even have to report illegal immigrants to the authorities, but if they want reimbursement for their services, they have to apply to the "social welfare office" (Sozialamt), which has to report the illegal immigrant.

This is interesting, generaly in the US they don't report them because the intent is not to try to make people live in inhumane conditions for fear of being deported. Hence police not reporting victims of crimes and the like.

 

[Eskarina]

This is interesting, generaly in the US they don't report them because the intent is not to try to make people live in inhumane conditions for fear of being deported. Hence police not reporting victims of crimes and the like.

Germany was not and is not an immigration country (legal or illegal), so we're pretty much making it up as we go along.

But with the growing number of illegal immigrants, the state of Berlin-Brandenburg, which probably has the most illegal immigrants, is trying to introduce some kind of anonymous health care. There are also various non-profit organisations nation-wide who provide it to illegal immigrants, no questions asked.