Canada Seal Slaughter begins

I'm guessing that you only read the first half of my post. Either that or I'm too dense to get your Interweb humour tonight.

Or both.

It wasn't humor, it was an attack on TBK's logic. Afterwards, I realized that I was going down a path that I really didn't go down, so I edited my reply. I'd rather not spend all of my time attacking other posters on this forum, I really don't want to expend my energy on something like that. It's really not what I want to be/do.

ETA: D'oh! Posted before your 2nd reply appeared. Please ignore.

I figured I should explain my post anyways, since you already posted my unedited reply.

No problem, otherwise.

I'd like to make a comment:

Aggle-rithm said:
Therein lies the problem: it's just not realistic to believe that you can save the whole world. The resources are limited, and we as humans have to make hard decisions about which animals live and which die. If we don't make a decision, it will be made for us, and animals will suffer as a result. The problem of limited resources also exists outside the confines of shelters and rescue groups. It's simply not an option to let them all run wild and free on a farm somewhere -- that magical farm doesn't exist.

I agree with this, more or less, but that doesn't change the ideal.

The ideal of society is to have one without criminals making lives harder on the rest of us; thus we work towards that ideal, without ever really expecting to reach the end of it.

The ideal of animals is to treat them as humanely as possible, and not have to euthanize or kill any animal needlessly. The dog that you mentioned in your post, however, was necessarily put down as you didn't have the resources to spend on him. But, ideally, it would have been preferable to keep him alive. That ideal hasn't changed, just your ability to fulfill that ideal has.
 
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It was then that we took in a very nice-looking and friendly border collie named Oakley. He would approach people, stand on his hind legs, and put his front paws around them, as if giving them a hug. There didn't seem to be an aggressive bone in his body, but the farmer who had dropped him off at the shelter told a different story. He said it he had to give Oakley up because he had killed a goat -- not a behavior you want in a working dog. We couldn't believe Oakley was capable of such a thing, but there were a few troubling behaviors.

We finally took Oakley to get evaluated by an animal behaviorist. The verdict: He was in serious danger of becoming aggressive towards humans. The decision was made to have Oakley euthanized.

Dang. Interesting situation. If it helps any, looks like you spared us all from the Ted Bundy of dogdom. Cheers, dude.
 
I've resisted posting on this thread up till now because I know that I tend to get very emotional about this particular topic (cruelty to animals, etc.). I don't see the point in arguing my side only to be told that I'm just overly emotional or that I'm anthropomorphizing. Animals feel pain and fear and should be treated with compassion because it's the right thing to do.

I just wanted to say that in 1976 or 1977, I attended a march in Winnipeg to protest the seal slaughter. We marched on the Parliament Building with signs and chanted "Stop the Slaughter! Save the Seals!" I guess I was (and still am) a hippie, and I wear the label proudly.

It makes me very sad that over 30 years later, nothing has changed.

(Oh, and I use live traps to catch the mice in my house.)


I've mostly stayed away from the emotional aspects of this thread because I also feel them deeply. Probably deeper than anyone else here. In 1976-77 while you were protesting in Winnipeg I was visiting my uncles who were fishermen. One of them went "to the ice" every year. He didn't go there out of "Bloodlust" as one poster would have you believe. He went there to make a little bit of money to put food on the table and a roof over the head of his family. No one risks life and limb on shifting sea ice because they get some cheap sexual thrill out of killing things, they do it because there is no other way to make a living. Now before you come back with government assistance or some such other crap let me ask you a question. How much money do you have to give a man to get him to give up his self respect? Why should anyone be forced to avoid looking his or her children in the eyes because he/she is ashamed at not being able to care for them? The hunt has been declared humane and the harp seal population is in no danger of extinction http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/seal-phoque/myth_e.htm . I have no doubt that within a very few years the commercial hunt will die a natural death and a part of my culture will be gone forever. I'm just glad Uncle Bill isn't around anymore to see it.
 
I've mostly stayed away from the emotional aspects of this thread because I also feel them deeply. Probably deeper than anyone else here. In 1976-77 while you were protesting in Winnipeg I was visiting my uncles who were fishermen. One of them went "to the ice" every year. He didn't go there out of "Bloodlust" as one poster would have you believe. He went there to make a little bit of money to put food on the table and a roof over the head of his family. No one risks life and limb on shifting sea ice because they get some cheap sexual thrill out of killing things, they do it because there is no other way to make a living. Now before you come back with government assistance or some such other crap let me ask you a question. How much money do you have to give a man to get him to give up his self respect? Why should anyone be forced to avoid looking his or her children in the eyes because he/she is ashamed at not being able to care for them? The hunt has been declared humane and the harp seal population is in no danger of extinction http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/seal-phoque/myth_e.htm . I have no doubt that within a very few years the commercial hunt will die a natural death and a part of my culture will be gone forever. I'm just glad Uncle Bill isn't around anymore to see it.


I'm really glad we got to hear this side of the story. Thanks Fitter.
 
Fitter said:
I have no doubt that within a very few years the commercial hunt will die a natural death and a part of my culture will be gone forever. I'm just glad Uncle Bill isn't around anymore to see it.

I'd act sad and all, but I really can't bring myself around to fake it.
 
He responds to everyone in that way, no matter what, as long as he disagrees with them. Thai is good at the insults, and slings them out willingly.

Which is why I have given up any hope of ever being polite to TBK.

I haven't paid enough attention to him to have an opinion on his behaviour in that respect. But it isn't hard to find people (in this thread even) who respect him.

I further asked him to quote the relevant material. He refused to. He just let you do it for him, I guess. Not my problem.

Well actually he told you which post to start reading at. I started reading at 2 posts before that, extracted the main quotes, and you apparently thought that his case was reasonable. In my books his response should have been more than sufficient. (While I wouldn't normally give a response like that, I type fairly quickly so I don't mind writing long essays. Others like to be briefer and I respect that.)

As far as I'm concerned, Thaiboxerken is just another form of Dustin.

As I've already noted, there are people around who respect him. That alone makes him rather different than Dustin.

Cheers,
Ben
 
Well actually he told you which post to start reading at.

Fair enough. I concede the point, I make an apology, and I retract my statements. I will endeavor to be more cool-headed in the future.

As I've already noted, there are people around who respect him. That alone makes him rather different than Dustin.

Maybe, but I did make the note as far as I am concerned. That doesn't mean, "As far as the forum is concerned".
 
Well at least we agree on something. Good day to you.

Likewise.

I never liked the statement, "It's the only way to make money, thus it's perfectly fine", personally. That seems more an argument to bring more jobs into the mix than to keep up inhumane butchering to me, personally.

And the "pride" thing? Yes, go ahead and risk your life to go slaughter animals for pride...

Your post was just a bunch of emotional bugaloo.

But I suppose your post deserves a more thorough response than what I gave.

I've mostly stayed away from the emotional aspects of this thread because I also feel them deeply. Probably deeper than anyone else here. In 1976-77 while you were protesting in Winnipeg I was visiting my uncles who were fishermen. One of them went "to the ice" every year. He didn't go there out of "Bloodlust" as one poster would have you believe.

I wouldn't have you believe that they went out of bloodlust, either. They went there to get money.

He went there to make a little bit of money to put food on the table and a roof over the head of his family. No one risks life and limb on shifting sea ice because they get some cheap sexual thrill out of killing things, they do it because there is no other way to make a living.

Like I said above, that seems more an argument for adding more jobs into the mix than it does to keep up the killing.

Now before you come back with government assistance or some such other crap let me ask you a question. How much money do you have to give a man to get him to give up his self respect?

This statement seems to have more emotion and rhetoric than anything else.

Though I do realize that government assistance is an iffy issue, especially since the government isn't quite good at assisting as many think, I'll grant.

Why should anyone be forced to avoid looking his or her children in the eyes because he/she is ashamed at not being able to care for them?

Rhetoric and emotion.

The hunt has been declared humane and the harp seal population is in no danger of extinction http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/seal-phoque/myth_e.htm

This part of your post actually has more value, admittedly. Extinction alone isn't a case for whether to continue an act or not, but according to your link, many of the methods of killing seals are considered just as humane as deaths caused by commercial slaughterhouses. If that's true (and I don't see a reason to doubt that it is), then that could also be used as more an argument against the killings in commercial slaughterhouses...

It honestly depends on how you look at it sometimes.

I have no doubt that within a very few years the commercial hunt will die a natural death and a part of my culture will be gone forever. I'm just glad Uncle Bill isn't around anymore to see it.

"Part of your culture"? Wow. Now that's really getting into the rhetoric.

If there is other economical diversity and jobs available, then why is it so bad? If there isn't, then what ways can we bring those jobs about? If it isn't the jobs that you have a main concern with, then what the hell is the problem? Oh, right, it's part of your "culture", therefore it should always be around and not questioned or protested against?

I'll say it again: I'd try to pretend to be sad that your "cultural heritage of killing seals" will be gone, but it's too hard. Just like I couldn't really be sad to see some other "cultural heritages" disappear... such as honor killing, wife beating, bride burning, and female circumcision (or male circumcision for that matter).
 
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I'll say it again: I'd try to pretend to be sad that your "cultural heritage of killing seals" will be gone, but it's too hard. Just like I couldn't really be sad to see some other "cultural heritages" disappear... such as honor killing, wife beating, bride burning, and female circumcision (or male circumcision for that matter).

Careful, now. All us mush brained liberals value diversity here, especially if it's anything W might take issue with.

All those things are valued parts of the multiculti idiocy that we celebrate. W doesn't believe in honor killing? We're for it. W doesn't beat his wife? We're for it. W doesn't believe in bride burning? Us liberals are for it. He didn't circumcise Jenna and the other airhead? Well, we need to be for it, just to show how liberal and tolerant and celebrating of diversity we are.

And please. Be sure to donate to Daily Kos and Moveon.Org. We need to get this message out.
 
I'll say it again: I'd try to pretend to be sad that your "cultural heritage of killing seals" will be gone, but it's too hard. Just like I couldn't really be sad to see some other "cultural heritages" disappear... such as honor killing, wife beating, bride burning, and female circumcision (or male circumcision for that matter).


One thing that you should be aware of in all this (although I have no idea if this is true in Fitter's case) is that in some instances the cultural heritage in question is First Nations. Here's a factoid for you:

"Archeological evidence indicates that the Native Americans and First Nations People in Canada have been hunting seals for at least 4,000 years."

Also, if you visited some of these communities in Newfoundland and Labrador and Eastern Quebec, and saw what their lives really are, your perspective might change a little.

All in all, I won't lose any sleep if the commercial hunt ends, but I'm sure not going to condemn anyone for participating - especially First Nations people.


ETA: Here's another source of info: http://www.fishaq.gov.nl.ca/sealfactsheet/
 
Careful, now. All us mush brained liberals value diversity here, especially if it's anything W might take issue with.

All those things are valued parts of the multiculti idiocy that we celebrate. W doesn't believe in honor killing? We're for it. W doesn't beat his wife? We're for it. W doesn't believe in bride burning? Us liberals are for it. He didn't circumcise Jenna and the other airhead? Well, we need to be for it, just to show how liberal and tolerant and celebrating of diversity we are.

And please. Be sure to donate to Daily Kos and Moveon.Org. We need to get this message out.


????!!!
Did I miss something here? :confused:
 
Why should anyone be forced to avoid looking his or her children in the eyes because he/she is ashamed at not being able to care for them?

So what you are saying is that if there was a buck in it, I would be justified in clubbing my golden retriever to feed my face? (From behind, of course.) :confused:

As far as the ancient tradition of the hunt argument, certain cultures still eat dogs. I think it is inhumane as they now have other options.
 
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So what you are saying is that if there was a buck in it, I would be justified in clubbing my golden retriever to feed my face? (From behind, of course.)

:confused:
No. Clubbing is taking the dog out to a bar for dancing. Rogering is more what is involved here, but I suggest a :goat rather than retriever, due to the risks involved, and the sharp pointy teeth on the retriever.

DR
 
So what you are saying is that if there was a buck in it, I would be justified in clubbing my golden retriever to feed my face? (From behind, of course.):confused:

No, I think he's saying that if there's a buck in it you would be justified in clubbing your golden retriever so that Zsa Zsa Gabor has a nice fur coat to wear the next time she slaps a Beverly Hills cop.
 
No. Clubbing is taking the dog out to a bar for dancing. Rogering is more what is involved here, but I suggest a :goat rather than retriever, due to the risks involved, and the sharp pointy teeth on the retriever.

DR

Darth. Thanks for saving my life! He dropped the club just in time.

-Alice
 

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