Canada may exit Kyoto pact to save $$$$$

[SezMe]

He's not worried they'll vote GOP, he's worried they won't vote at all. The pipeline was a done deal before the loons started demonstrating in DC.

But that's exactly my point, WildCat. The "lunatic fringe" (your words, not mine) is so small that their turnout can't affect the race. And, they are already so pissed at Obama that they may well not vote anyway, no matter how the pipeline decision might have gone. The only bloc large enough to have an electoral effect is the large bloc of mainstream environmentalists. Their vote MIGHT have been affected by the pipeline decision but you specifically excluded them from your comment.

 

[WildCat]

But that's exactly my point, WildCat. The "lunatic fringe" (your words, not mine) is so small that their turnout can't affect the race. And, they are already so pissed at Obama that they may well not vote anyway, no matter how the pipeline decision might have gone. The only bloc large enough to have an electoral effect is the large bloc of mainstream environmentalists. Their vote MIGHT have been affected by the pipeline decision but you specifically excluded them from your comment.

Actually 24% or so of Americans oppose the pipeline. Hardly a small enough voting bloc to ignore. But he can't come out and oppose it, because 64% of Americans support the pipeline, including labor unions, a key Obama constituency. Thus, he decided to punt by delaying the decision until after the election, and in the process avoiding pissing off one constituency or the other.

The GOP may try to force his hand by including the pipeline in a bill he supports, specifically the extension of the payroll tax reduction. Stay tuned!

eta: opposition to the tar sands is much more mainstream environmentalism, but the claim that the pipeline puts the Ogallala aquifer at risk is the loony tune fringe.

 

[SezMe]

Actually 24% or so of Americans oppose the pipeline. Hardly a small enough voting bloc to ignore. But he can't come out and oppose it, because 64% of Americans support the pipeline, including labor unions, a key Obama constituency. Thus, he decided to punt by delaying the decision until after the election, and in the process avoiding pissing off one constituency or the other.

On substance, I don't think you and I disagree. I don't know about your numbers but I accept them as valid. Where I quibble with you is calling the 24% the "lunatic fringe". Just because you disagree with some environmentalists doesn't justify your calling them the "lunatic fringe". Lay off the hyperbole and we can hold hands and sing Kumbayah.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

one glacier that is known to many is victoria glacier at lake louise alberta, in banff park.
in my lifetime, it has greatly diminshed in size.
it is probably one of the most photographed glaciers on the planet.
note the incredible difference in 5 years.
the pictures are from 2004 and 2009.

You better get behind that nuclear power plant they're building by your house then, eh BD?

Looking at Alberta vs. Ontario's energy production and respective carbon footprints, it looks to be about the only way you'll save your precious snowdrift.

 

[bikerdruid]

You better get behind that nuclear power plant they're building by your house then, eh BD?

Looking at Alberta vs. Ontario's energy production and respective carbon footprints, it looks to be about the only way you'll save your precious snowdrift.

don't need it.
got solar.
end.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

don't need it.
got solar.
end.

No you don't.

And solar doesn't work on large scales across cities and nations, remember?

 

[bikerdruid]

No you don't.

sorry...are you telling me i don't live with solar electricity?

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

sorry...are you telling me i don't live with solar electricity?

Does your computer have a calender on it (right click on the clock in the lower right hand corner of the screen and select "Adjust date/time")?

Check it and get back to me.

 

[Aepervius]

don't need it.
got solar.
end.

You have either an enormous solar installation with battery (physical or electrochemical) , or you are indeed not solely on solar or you are limiting the energy use to what you receive.

Which is it ?

Point 1 and 3 by the way are not doable on large scale. And point 2 definitively is what SOT is speaking about.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

You have either an enormous solar installation with battery (physical or electrochemical) , or you are indeed not solely on solar or you are limiting the energy use to what you receive.

Which is it ?

All three if I recall correctly from BDs previous posts. He claims he lives a "Gaia-friendly" lifestyle. He has a large solar installation which produces 3 times what he needs or uses in summer but it bottoms out in December and January so he switches to a gas fueled generator during Albertas depressingly dark winter months (I have two brothers who work 9-to-5s in an office building in downtown Edmonton, the only exposure to sunlight they will get will be Saturdays and Sundays from now until mid-February. It's really that bad up here).

 

[bikerdruid]

You better get behind that nuclear power plant they're building by your house then, eh BD?

Looking at Alberta vs. Ontario's energy production and respective carbon footprints, it looks to be about the only way you'll save your precious snowdrift.

sot's first statement.

don't need it.
got solar.
end.

my reply..."I" don't need nuke power. "I" live with solar power.

No you don't.

s of t's argumentative response...


as much as s of t loves to make me the topic of any thread he can, i am not.
i live with solar electricity, which i supplement with a small generator a few hours a week for a couple of months.
i burn about 5 litres of petrol a week to keep my batteries topped up, for two to three months a year..

"I" do not need nukes......deal with it.

now since this thread is not about me.....carry on.

 

[CosCos]

i searched for better pictures.
you don't see a huge chunk of glacier that is missing in the second picture?
the angles are not that different.
i can assure you, in the almost 50 years that i have known the glacier, it has lost the majority of its mass.

Is this a joke? There's a flipping lake in the first one that's no where to be seen in the second one!! The angles are WILDLY different. I was there in Sep 2010 and took a pic almost identical to the one in the first picture so I can assure you the lake is still there. I don't know what you were trying to prove but your failure is epic.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Is this a joke? There's a flipping lake in the first one that's no where to be seen in the second one!! The angles are WILDLY different. I was there in Sep 2010 and took a pic almost identical to the one in the first picture so I can assure you the lake is still there. I don't know what you were trying to prove but your failure is epic.

I was there five weeks ago at the Alberta Teachers Association Science Council conference. I was there representing the Canadian Nuclear Society and offering teachers pro-nuclear propaganda lesson plans and classroom materials on nuclear energy and radioactivity.

I was staying in a 300 dollar a night hotel room shilling for the nuclear industry while "Occupy Edmonton" was begging on the web for carbon-barfing stoves, generators and arctic tents.

This is what the philosopher Charles Sheen calls "WINNING!"

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

my reply..."I" don't need nuke power. "I" live with solar power.

You're not an average Albertan.

as much as s of t loves to make me the topic of any thread he can, i am not.
i live with solar electricity, which i supplement with a small generator a few hours a week for a couple of months.
i burn about 5 litres of petrol a week to keep my batteries topped up, for two to three months a year..

If you had the power usage of an average Albertan, you'd be running the generator all year long.

"I" do not need nukes......deal with it.
now since this thread is not about me.....carry on.

No, it isn't about you. It's about the other 3.7 million of us who are gonna take a blowtorch to your mountainside if we can't find a way to get what we want carbon-free.

Now if you want to see your beloved glacier alive by the end of the century, place 4,000 megawatts of nuclear generating capacity in unmarked ACR-1000s on the banks of the Peace River.

 

[D'rok]

All three if I recall correctly from BDs previous posts. He claims he lives a "Gaia-friendly" lifestyle. He has a large solar installation which produces 3 times what he needs or uses in summer but it bottoms out in December and January so he switches to a gas fueled generator during Albertas depressingly dark winter months (I have two brothers who work 9-to-5s in an office building in downtown Edmonton, the only exposure to sunlight they will get will be Saturdays and Sundays from now until mid-February. It's really that bad up here).

I just moved to an Edmonton downtown office building after working for some time in a Toronto downtown office building. It's fracking AWESOME here! I face due south and I get to watch the sunrise over the legislature.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

I just moved to an Edmonton downtown office building after working for some time in a Toronto downtown office building. It's fracking AWESOME here!

I never said it wasn't. I love this town.

(just don't fool yourself into thinking solar power is viable here)

 

[D'rok]

I never said it wasn't. I love this town.

(just don't fool yourself into thinking solar power is viable here)

What about part of the year? We get a ridiculous amount of sunlight during the summer. Wouldn't it be wise to supplement with solar?

 

[Segnosaur]

What about part of the year? We get a ridiculous amount of sunlight during the summer. Wouldn't it be wise to supplement with solar?

I think the question is how exactly you define the concept of 'supplement'.

Yes, you can help cut down energy usage using solar techniques (solar panels, or "passive" techniques.) But at this point in our technological development its not really feasible for Canada to have an all-solar (or even all-renewable) electrical grid.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

What about part of the year? We get a ridiculous amount of sunlight during the summer. Wouldn't it be wise to supplement with solar?

If you want to put panels on your own roof, go ahead. I've never been opposed to that. Solar just isn't viable at the scale of cities and countries.

Oh, and welcome back home, BTW.

 

[Aepervius]

Thank you bikerdruid you confirmed what I thought : your lifestyl is probably both beyond the monetary power of the average person, and even if they had the money probably non generalizable to the population due the resource usage it would imply. In other word, you have your own turf , and more or less pontificate from a position of what I woudl call "wealth".