Can this qualify as a challenge?
- Thread starter PeaceCrusader
- Start date
Just wanted to see if you were wearing anything below the waist.
And I'm not here to "help this thread."
I'm waiting for March 4, 2007, when all shall be revealed.
M.
well yea.. who would like to confuse the heck out of people?
I happen to have a very personal thing when someone is pretending to be speaking to a spirit...
but now you said it, I wont be a party to this scam. good luck
well yea.. who would like to confuse the heck out of people?
I happen to have a very personal thing when someone is pretending to be speaking to a spirit...
but now you said it, I wont be a party to this scam. good luck
Up to this point, we do neither have evidence proving PeaceCrusader's claim nor evidence disproving it, Pro7.
If you have a personal thing, deal with it on your personal time.
Jackalgirl
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Once again, PC, we're looking for prophecies that don't have to be explained or clarified, and that are unique enough to not be part of regular natural phenomenon or human nature. It has to be something with a specific deadline date, a specific location, and a specific description.
We have already demonstrated, via our various objections, why your previous set of prophecies will not satisfy anyone here. If you keep bringing them up and trying to explain them, people will simply continue to argue -- no one will be convinced.
If you want to convince here, in this forum, you need to provide extremely specific, detailed prophecies, with specific date/time stamps and location information. Nothing open-ended, and nothing that needs to be explained, interpreted, or clarified. It should stand on its own.
PeaceCrusader
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Dear Jackalgirl and Fellow Forumers,
I wish the spirit give us "extremely specific, detailed prophecies, with specific date/time stamps and location information." As He said, the prophecies He gave will surely happen. When? He did not state. Why they will happen? So that we will stop killing each other and learn to love one another. Now, because of so many belief systems, killing is even justified. If we all come to know the true God and believe in Him, like what happened to the Jews, then animosity among people will be minimized if not prevented. Everybody will have the feeling of oneness.
Would you like me to continue explaining the 19 prophecies of the spirit?
Best regards,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo
I wish the spirit give us "extremely specific, detailed prophecies, with specific date/time stamps and location information." As He said, the prophecies He gave will surely happen. When? He did not state. Why they will happen? So that we will stop killing each other and learn to love one another. Now, because of so many belief systems, killing is even justified. If we all come to know the true God and believe in Him, like what happened to the Jews, then animosity among people will be minimized if not prevented. Everybody will have the feeling of oneness.
Would you like me to continue explaining the 19 prophecies of the spirit?
Best regards,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo
Loss Leader
I would save the receptionist., Moderator
Why? There will still be a scarcity of resources. Some people will have access to food, wealth, etc. and some will not. Just about everybody in Watts is the same race and religion but they still manage to shoot at each other in a war over scarcity. The people of North and South Korea share a religion and they have been at war for over fifty years.
PC, you haven't explained them. You've just furiously waived your hands and hoped that it sounded like an explanation. There have been terrible weather events all throughout history and pre-history. It's slightly warmer now than it was a hundred years ago but it's still not as warm as it once was.
On their very face, none of these "prophesies" is even intersting, let alone provable. Women will not be chaste? Come on. The sexual revolution of the 1960s and the introduction of birth control led to a decrease in chastity. Since 1980, as the population has aged, people have become more monogamous, not less. Just accept that these 19 things are nonsense and move on.
Best regards,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo[/QUOTE]
Jackalgirl
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I'm sorry to say, but no. Most of the prophesies are extremely vague and are likely to happen, especially given an "anytime in the future" non-deadline. So they do not prove anything to me. Your explanations are just that: your explanations. The vagueness of the prophesies means they could be interpreted in many ways. So again, they do not prove anything to me.
For what it's worth, I think it would be wonderful if we, as a species, would stop killing each other and love each other. I also agree that in many belief/cultural systems, killing is justified under circumstances I personally don't think are justifiable (and I'm also aware that many "flavors" of religions even reject killing in self-defense, which I personally believe in, although I have a very tightly-defined idea of what constitutes "self-defense").
However, I do not think that prophesies, especially extremely vague open-ended ones, will change the minds of people who believe that they have a vested interest in continuing their cultural/ideological/religious justifications for killing (or are just not interested in changing the status quo, or are not aware that they can).
Honestly, PC, I don't even think that if God Itself appeared in a big blazing ball of fire on all of the major news channels at the same time and said, in all languages, "listen up, morons, THIS is what I meant!", that it would solve the problem. Because vast numbers of people will say "it was just a trick!" or "that's not MY God -- it's the Devil!" or whatever.
We often say here, in this forum, that a believer will believe what they want to believe and can't possibly be convinced to believe otherwise, even when given absolute proof that their belief is wrong: heck, you can even see it happening, in many threads. I'm afraid that I don't think that even God could change most people's minds, not if they didn't already want to believe the message. I think that God knows this, so I am liable to believe that vague, open-ended prophesies aimed at "scaring" people into believing in the One True Way are not, in fact, from God.
What I believe (I'm talking about faith, here) is True for me (though not necessarily for anyone else). Since it is True for me, to change my mind otherwise it will take particularly graceful and logical arguments that ring true to my own internal sense of rightness (and the argument that there is only One Way to Relate to God and that One Way is Jesus absolutely does not), or it will take FACTUAL EVIDENCE. That's just the way it is with me. Please, please, please do not bother to lay out vague open-ended prophesies that require your extensive explanation in order to "fit". IT WILL NOT WORK.
I've said this before (many times), but it bears repeating: in this Forum, any attempt on your part to interpret/convince/preach is just going to net you a whole bunch of argument (and a fair amount of derision). 'Cause here you need to provide factual evidence. ESPECIALLY if you're in the Challenge section, trying to figure out whether you (or the lady in the Phillipines) can apply for the Challenge, which is the only thing you really should be doing in this section.
Burner
Thinker
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Just one. What was the great world sorrow event of the 2nd and 3rd month of 1980? Thanks!
Jocky
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Having waded through the whole of this thread, I too am eagerly awaiting PeaceCrusader's revelation about whether the medium in the Philippines will agree to be tested. Let's hope the consent is forthcoming, and that it can then be converted into an actual notarized application.
I am struck by the exemplary fashion in which PC has conducted him/herself, unfailing in courtesy despite the customary sniping which claimants always seem to attract from certain quarters.
It is good to see some skeptical JREFers (particularly JackalGirl and Gzuzkryzt) responding to PC's good manners in kind, patiently helping him/her to frame a meaningful claim, and to distinguish between evidence and faith.
IMO, this is the way to help claimants (and lurkers) understand what skepticism is all about - and to distinguish it from cynicism.
PeaceCrusader
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Dear Jocky and my Fellowmen,
Thank you very much for your kind words, Jocky. Also to GzuzKryzt and Jackalgirl. I don't want to retaliate even if I am mocked or sniped at for I believe that it is not mine to take revenge but it will be the Lord who will do it in my behalf, in His time and decision. I just pray to the Lord and place everything under His care. I will just present what I heard and learned from Him.
FYI, I am a 60-year-old man and already in the sunset of my life. So I would like to share to the people of the world the food that I have tasted. The spirit told us, "Delicious food should not be kept to oneself. Share it." The delicious food that He is referring to is the food for our soul that He told us.
It will not be the medium who will be tested but the spirit who appropriates the body of this woman-medium in the Philippines. The woman will ask the spirit if He would like to be tested. She asked me to call her this weekend to know the response of the spirit. Our wait will not be long anymore. I will convey to you immediately His response no later than Sunday, March 4, 2007.
I understand that most, if not all the people, in this forum are skeptics. I appreciate that. As the saying goes, "Doubt first before you believe." Have I mentioned that it took me eleven years (1983-1994) doubting that the spirit we talk to is Jesus, before I believed that He is really Jesus? If it took me that long, how about you? Would you believe the spirit to be Jesus if He accepts the challenge and passes the test successfully? Neither will I nor Jesus force you to believe in Him. The decision rests upon you.
Best regards,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo
Thank you very much for your kind words, Jocky. Also to GzuzKryzt and Jackalgirl. I don't want to retaliate even if I am mocked or sniped at for I believe that it is not mine to take revenge but it will be the Lord who will do it in my behalf, in His time and decision. I just pray to the Lord and place everything under His care. I will just present what I heard and learned from Him.
FYI, I am a 60-year-old man and already in the sunset of my life. So I would like to share to the people of the world the food that I have tasted. The spirit told us, "Delicious food should not be kept to oneself. Share it." The delicious food that He is referring to is the food for our soul that He told us.
It will not be the medium who will be tested but the spirit who appropriates the body of this woman-medium in the Philippines. The woman will ask the spirit if He would like to be tested. She asked me to call her this weekend to know the response of the spirit. Our wait will not be long anymore. I will convey to you immediately His response no later than Sunday, March 4, 2007.
I understand that most, if not all the people, in this forum are skeptics. I appreciate that. As the saying goes, "Doubt first before you believe." Have I mentioned that it took me eleven years (1983-1994) doubting that the spirit we talk to is Jesus, before I believed that He is really Jesus? If it took me that long, how about you? Would you believe the spirit to be Jesus if He accepts the challenge and passes the test successfully? Neither will I nor Jesus force you to believe in Him. The decision rests upon you.
Best regards,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo
PeaceCrusader
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Dear Burner and Fellow Forumers,
Thank you, Burner, for your reply. You have selected one of the 19 prophecies that we can test because it happened a few months after the prophecies were revealed on October 19, 1979.
The prophecy states: "Unprecedented sorrow will rock the whole world in the second or third month of 1980."
I am looking for my clippings from newspapers and magazines and the Internet which I believe is the fulfillment of this prophecy but I have not found it. So I will try to recall the information about the event. Please correct the info or put in the correct dates.
The prophecy was fulfilled with the eruption of Mount St Helens in the state of Washington in USA in May 1980. However, two months prior to this eruption, about the last week of March 1980, the volcano issued plume of smoke from its top after 123 years of inactivity. The volcano came back to life. It was a signal of something that was to happen. So for the next two months, volcanologists monitored the activity of the volcano; tourists visited the site.
Then in May 1980, the volcano erupted. Instead of blasting upward, it blasted laterally. The force of this blast was equal to so many times the bombs dropped at Hiroshima or Nagasaki. Because the blast was lateral, it changed the direction of the jet stream, and so is the weather pattern. The jet stream used to be flowing from northwest to southeast across Mainland USA but was changed from west to east. This caused the coldness of the north to be trapped so that year, it suffered a severe winter whereas the south, since no cold air came from the north, suffered severe heatwave. In Europe, it became rainy. They say that they did not experience summer that year.
Until now, we are still experiencing this change in weather pattern, which people attribute to global warming, pollution, etc. but never to God. And this change was due to the eruption of Mount St Helens in May 1980, but the signal was issued two months earlier in March 1980.
Would you agree to this explanation or you have any other event in February or March 1980 that "rocked the whole world" with "unprecedented sorrow"? Or none at all?
Best regards,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo
PeaceCrusader said:
Thank you, Burner, for your reply. You have selected one of the 19 prophecies that we can test because it happened a few months after the prophecies were revealed on October 19, 1979.
The prophecy states: "Unprecedented sorrow will rock the whole world in the second or third month of 1980."
I am looking for my clippings from newspapers and magazines and the Internet which I believe is the fulfillment of this prophecy but I have not found it. So I will try to recall the information about the event. Please correct the info or put in the correct dates.
The prophecy was fulfilled with the eruption of Mount St Helens in the state of Washington in USA in May 1980. However, two months prior to this eruption, about the last week of March 1980, the volcano issued plume of smoke from its top after 123 years of inactivity. The volcano came back to life. It was a signal of something that was to happen. So for the next two months, volcanologists monitored the activity of the volcano; tourists visited the site.
Then in May 1980, the volcano erupted. Instead of blasting upward, it blasted laterally. The force of this blast was equal to so many times the bombs dropped at Hiroshima or Nagasaki. Because the blast was lateral, it changed the direction of the jet stream, and so is the weather pattern. The jet stream used to be flowing from northwest to southeast across Mainland USA but was changed from west to east. This caused the coldness of the north to be trapped so that year, it suffered a severe winter whereas the south, since no cold air came from the north, suffered severe heatwave. In Europe, it became rainy. They say that they did not experience summer that year.
Until now, we are still experiencing this change in weather pattern, which people attribute to global warming, pollution, etc. but never to God. And this change was due to the eruption of Mount St Helens in May 1980, but the signal was issued two months earlier in March 1980.
Would you agree to this explanation or you have any other event in February or March 1980 that "rocked the whole world" with "unprecedented sorrow"? Or none at all?
Best regards,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo
Loss Leader
I would save the receptionist., Moderator
PC, that's an excellent question. To answer it, let's look at what would happen. An elderly woman would come into a room, she would name what is in several boxes and she would be right.
Although this would be extraordinary, all it would prove is that it happened. It would not say anything about how it happened. You and this woman may believe that she was right because she was speaking with the voice of Jesus. However, there would be no evidence that she succeeded because she was helped by Jesus, only that she succeeded. She could have had help from a departed spirit who was not Jesus, or she could have some type of ESP that allows her to see through boxes. She could be helped by aliens with microscopic cameras and a tiny receiver in her ear. She could even have been helped by Satan attemting to lure people into demanding miracles from God instead of just having faith.
As for myself, a successful test would prove to me that magical powers exist which contradict the laws of physics. Personally, I would believe that the only way such a thing could happen is if there is a God - a master of the universe who has the power to change the very fabric of existence. I would not be convinced that God himself helped this woman or that Jesus was God. But I would be convinced that there is a God.
Others may differ.
Humphreys
Supercalifragilisticskepticalidocious
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It wouldn't actually be proof that this was Jesus, but yeah, sure, you pass the challenge and I'll accept Jesus. You have my word.
Jocky
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Not at all. Not everyone reacts with such grace when goaded, and I think you deserve credit for your persistence and courtesy. A lot of claimants do not fare so well.
I did choose my words deliberately here. The underlying question at issue is whether the spirit has any existence independent of the medium's imagination. If it does not, then the decision to test does indeed lie with the medium, even if she herself may not consciously realise this.
In the absence of evidence to the contrary, I doubt the proposition that the medium can communicate with a spirit which is capable of identifying properly concealed objects. As you say, such doubt is a hallmark of the skeptical approach.
However, if your claim was to be proved true, that would not lead to belief - it would lead to knowledge, which in turn could someday lead to understanding. Belief is personal and subjective, while knowledge is not. It is the pursuit of knowledge and the prospect of understanding which motivates me, not a desire to find something in which to believe.
Some most assuredly are anything but skeptics, as you no doubt have gleaned.
Skeptics tend to believe what the evidence shows. Where's your evidence?
Cut the BS evangelizing and pass the test.
M.
*** NEWS ALERT! ***
My cat (who is very spiritual) has just revealed to me that you haven't a snowflake's chance in hell of passing the test. Matter of fact, he adds that you will devise 1001 excuses for either not taking the test, or for failing it if you do take it. Nice kitty
Jocky
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Of course. Just as you speak for yourself.
Surely you didn't think I was referring to your posts, did you?
In my experience, exposing people to scorn when their only mistake is that they do not understand critical thinking, does not help them to grasp what is being said. On the contrary, it can contribute to reinforcing fallacious stereotypes such as "Science thinks it knows everything" and "Science is just another religion".
Were we to be talking about someone who knowingly uses other people's credulity for their own profit regardless of the harm, then scorn would be an entirely appropriate response (viz. Sylvia Browne at al).
It seems quite evident to me that PeaceCrusader is not in this category. He can expect to have his ideas minutely examined and robustly criticised here of course, but he does not deserve to be personally mocked.
After all, we all want to encourage eligible claimants to come up with sound protocols and apply properly for the challenge, don't we?