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Can this qualify as a challenge?

Dear Cuddles and Fellow Forumers,

Cuddles said:
Actually, the first know case of infection with HIV was in 1959. AIDS was known as a disease by the late 1970s and gay men in the USA and Sweden were known to have it in 1978, although it was not yet called AIDS.

I asked you first. Is Ringo Starr the person who has the power to make these things happen?
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The direct answer to your question is No. Ringo Starr, or any human being, does not have the power to make these things happen.

If you question the disease GOTACURAL in the prophecy, then wait to see the fulfillment of His explicit prophecies, such as human babies born with three eyes, human baby born with horns, human baby born with complete set of adult teeth and long hair, human being giving birth to kitten, cat giving birth to human being.

The spirit told us that if the prophecies are not fulfilled, then we will just be killing each other. I believe that what He means is that when we see the prophecies are being fulfilled, then we will learn to know that only God can make these things happen, so we will learn to recognize Him and follow His commandments.

Best regards,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo
 
Still waiting, PC...

My cat had kittens. Well, no, he didn't. But he could have. Because I believe!

Is that a cow bell I hear in the distance?

M.
 
Dear GzuzKryzt and Fellow Forumers,

GzuzKryzt said:
Since I neither believe nor don't believe in "spirits", I thankfully decline your offer, PeaceCrusader.

A simple demonstration of the "spirit's" alleged ability - by e.g. telling the correct content of the aforementioned 10 boxes - will suffice for me.
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That is a better suggestion. Not in just one box but different items in ten boxes. Make it 25 items instead of ten. Put these different items in 25 boxes. Success means naming ALL items correctly and failure is anything wrong, even one of them.

It is now 5:00 am, Wednesday, 2007 February 21, in Australia. No reply yet from the woman or from anyone in her household or from any of the listeners. Be rest assured that as soon as I receive a reply, I will inform you straight away. I am very eager to prove that what I stated He can do is true.

Best regards,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo
 
PeaceCrusader said:
Dear GzuzKryzt and Fellow Forumers,



That is a better suggestion. Not in just one box but different items in ten boxes. Make it 25 items instead of ten. Put these different items in 25 boxes. Success means naming ALL items correctly and failure is anything wrong, even one of them.

It is now 5:00 am, Wednesday, 2007 February 21, in Australia. No reply yet from the woman or from anyone in her household or from any of the listeners. Be rest assured that as soon as I receive a reply, I will inform you straight away. I am very eager to prove that what I stated He can do is true.

Best regards,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo
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PeaceCrusader, if you insist on 25 out of 25 as success and everything else as a failure, the JREF will most likely accommodate you.

However, this seems like the third step in this process. We are still waiting for a successful second step: The "spirit's" approval, followed by a proper application.
 
PeaceCrusader said:
Dear Cuddles and Fellow Forumers,

The spirit told us that if the prophecies are not fulfilled, then we will just be killing each other. I believe that what He means is that when we see the prophecies are being fulfilled, then we will learn to know that only God can make these things happen, so we will learn to recognize Him and follow His commandments.
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So the spirit admits that he/she might be wrong in which case something else will happen? We will be killing eachother? Newsflash: We are killing eachother ALL THE TIME.

And you say it took 10 years for you to start to belive this spirit. What was it exactly that made YOU belive him? What did this spirit tell you in connection to YOU that made you belive him?

And you didn't aswered my questions:
So if Jesus hadn't died the Holy Spirit wouldn't have come? Does that mean it was right for Jesus to die all along? I don't get it. If this is so, why does everyone hate Judas? He was just helping his friend.
 
Burner said:
So the spirit admits that he/she might be wrong in which case something else will happen? We will be killing eachother? Newsflash: We are killing eachother ALL THE TIME.

And you say it took 10 years for you to start to belive this spirit. What was it exactly that made YOU belive him? What did this spirit tell you in connection to YOU that made you belive him?

And you didn't aswered my questions:
So if Jesus hadn't died the Holy Spirit wouldn't have come? Does that mean it was right for Jesus to die all along? I don't get it. If this is so, why does everyone hate Judas? He was just helping his friend.
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Please permit me to say that this seems quite irrelevant to PeaceCrusader's claim, Burner.
You are of course welcomed to discuss this in the "Religion & Philosophy" subforum.
 
GzuzKryzt said:
Please permit me to say that this seems quite irrelevant to PeaceCrusader's claim, Burner.
You are of course welcomed to discuss this in the "Religion & Philosophy" subforum.
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Au contraire. I think it's very relevant to see what made HIM believe this spirit. More so what made him belive it is Jesus himself. As for my last qestions I agree they belong to Religion forum but I don't intend to push it since he most likely won't answer.
 
Burner said:
Au contraire. I think it's very relevant to see what made HIM believe this spirit. More so what made him belive it is Jesus himself. As for my last qestions I agree they belong to Religion forum but I don't intend to push it since he most likely won't answer.
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Tu ne peux pas être plus erroné.

The JREF does not at all care for theoretical explanations concerning a claim. The proof matters, favourably in a test. After an application, which has been accepted.
 
GzuzKryzt said:
Tu ne peux pas être plus erroné.

The JREF does not at all care for theoretical explanations concerning a claim. The proof matters, favourably in a test. After an application, which has been accepted.
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J'ai une grenouille dans mon bidet.

Proof is not what discussion forums are for. Discussion is.
 
Burner said:
J'ai une grenouille dans mon bidet.

Proof is not what discussion forums are for. Discussion is.
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This is the Million Dollar Challenge subforum. It is for claims concerning the Challenge, and is, ideally, governed by the Challenge Rules and directions given in the FAQs.

"Zap" your uncle, Burner, and give us the results. :D
 
Burner said:
That's not stopping people discussing claims with applicants in other threads is it? I just don't see your point here tbh.
...
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If by discussing you mean not getting to the point while prancing around, you are of course right. I won't stop anyone doing that, either.

I will question said approach regularly. My German genes require efficiency. ;)
 
I read through this thread yesterday, and did not re-read it, so I apologise in advance if the point I am about to make has already been discussed, but I think it is important. For both this, and other applicants who may try to go down a similar track. And, yes, I realise that the original claim (establishing the birth and death dates of Jesus) is, well sort of, already been eliminated as the possibility of a Challenge. But...

Now the OP claimed that he obtained data by supernatural means (a "spirit"), and then said that he would subsequently confirm the data by scientific means.

Note, it does not matter what the original data was from where I am coming from. (It could have been something that made gravity an obsolete theory) This is far more general, and perhaps does not belong on this specific thread (if so, could a Mod please split it?)

My point is, that if the data is confirmed scientificically, the information obtained is not, by definition, supernatural, and does not qualify for the prize. It was scientifically established.

The applicant would still have to establish HOW the data was obtained in the first place. That is, it must be shown that the data was obtained through a "spirit", or by some other supernatural method. And I will not even go into the point that Yeshua ha Nostri may not even have existed, so the possibility of confirming his birth and death dates are moot at best.

Edited to add: I am not sure I made my point properly when I re-read my post, so here is an analogy:

A guy named Lamarch has a pretty good idea, which is generally accepted, but another person named Darwin says he is wrong, and after a trip to the Galapagos Islands and many years of work, provides sufficient evidence that his ideas are right, and Lamarch is wrong. He says that BEFORE his voyage and studies, that a "spirit" told him that Lamarch was wrong.

Would he qualify for the $1 million? I don't think so!

Norm
 
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fromdownunder said:
A guy named Lamarch has a pretty good idea, which is generally accepted, but another person named Darwin says he is wrong, and after a trip to the Galapagos Islands and many years of work, provides sufficient evidence that his ideas are right, and Lamarch is wrong. He says that BEFORE his voyage and studies, that a "spirit" told him that Lamarch was wrong.

Would he qualify for the $1 million? I don't think so!

Norm
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Hi, Norm --

Well, in this case, PC isn't actually talking about an idea (like a scientific hypothesis or suspicion that someone else's hypothesis or theory is incorrect). He's talking about an ability; namely, the ability to see what is in 25 sealed boxes without using any devices. He claims that it's the Spirit and it might be, or it might not be -- if it's not, he (or the lady in the PI, to be more exact) is remote-viewing (also paranormal) or clairvoyant (also paranormal) or has a particularly fine-grained extremely long-distance telekenetic ability (also paranormal), or has otherwise invented a device that operates on principals contrary to our current knowledge of physics (also paranormal). So I think we're pretty safe here.
 
GzuzKryzt said:
I will question said approach regularly. My German genes require efficiency. ;)
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I knew there was something wrong with you. Btw, proper evidence for claims can only be obtained trough proper testing. Unitl that hapens I see no evil in talking to ze applicants, ja? :p
 
Burner said:
I knew there was something wrong with you. Btw, proper evidence for claims can only be obtained trough proper testing. Unitl that hapens I see no evil in talking to ze applicants, ja? :p
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Technically, "evil" does not exist. ;)

I'd like to keep at least one thread on track by simply discussing claim-related material and to not let the focus drift away from the process we're currently witnessing: The response of the "medium"/"spirit".



I agree that healthy discussion is a vital part of this forum. However, sometimes threads get derailed beyond recognition by cramming too many topics in one, e.g. the "Changes to the Challenge" thread.
You could open another thread e.g. in "Religion & Philosophy" if you want to discuss topics with PeaceCrusader which fall under that category.
 
PeaceCrusader said:
The direct answer to your question is No. Ringo Starr, or any human being, does not have the power to make these things happen.
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Damn, I thought I might be on to something.

If you question the disease GOTACURAL in the prophecy, then wait to see the fulfillment of His explicit prophecies, such as human babies born with three eyes, human baby born with horns, human baby born with complete set of adult teeth and long hair, human being giving birth to kitten, cat giving birth to human being.
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It is not about questioning the GOTACURAL prediction, it is the quite obvious fact that it was wrong. A prediction from the 1970s that says a new disease called GOTACURAL will appear is simply not fulfilled by a disease called AIDS that had been present since at least the 1950s. It's not a question of interpretation, it is just wrong. The disease existed before the prediction and did not ever have the name from the prediction. There isn't a single part of the prediction that bears any relation to the real world.

The spirit told us that if the prophecies are not fulfilled
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How can a prophecy not be fulfilled? A prophecy tells you what is going to happen. That's the whole point of them. If it doesn't happen then it was merely someone making a wild guess at the future. People doing this are known as false phophets, and the bible makes it quite clear that god is not at all happy about them.
 
Well as I said to other people..

When you have a real spirit talking to you..

and you are after a 1 million dollar challenge..

woe to you..

You cannot worship God and Money at the same time. You must make a choice. If I had a real spirit talking with me, I wouldnt even ANNOUNCE it to anyone.. it would be kept secret.

Why would you need the challenge anyways? .. get my point?

I got some things that could qualify for the MDC.. but will I take the challenge..

no..

Its because it would expose me or whatever that I do. No fear of fraud, no fear of anything that can be considered negative in the eyes of the challenge process..

You understand what my point is? Why would you want the money? .. why?
 
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Cuddles said:
How can a prophecy not be fulfilled? A prophecy tells you what is going to happen. That's the whole point of them. If it doesn't happen then it was merely someone making a wild guess at the future. People doing this are known as false phophets, and the bible makes it quite clear that god is not at all happy about them.
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Uh-oh, I feel forum Gestapo will be on you soon. 'Talking to ze applicant ist verboten, show me ze papers. ' :D
 
[jedi mind trick]You don't need to see my papers. This is not the Cuddles you are looking for.[/jedi mind trick]
 
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