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California is doomed

Every drop counts.

Nonsense. A focus on politically charged issues that draws attention away from politically unfavorable plans that have the potential to actually affect change HARMS the situation. People attack bottled water companies--despite the fact that they do not constitute a significant amount of water usage--because they're soft targets. Same with lawns. Then everyone gets to talk about how environmentally friendly they are and what good they're doing and we all get to join hands and sing Kumbaya about how we're saving the planet, and all the while the state continues to operate in the red when it comes to water usage.

The ONLY way to solve the problem is to find more fresh water, or stop using so much. And the ONLY ways to substantively affect water usage is to stop using so much to grow crops, or find environmental uses you are willing to halt in order to divert that water to crops. Anything else is political trickery intended to make you feel like you're doinig something without actually addressing the problem, and are in fact making it worse.
 
Knowing the history of Cain, I doubt he roots for anyone.

Oh, make no mistake, I root for the Dodgers. Granted, I never watch any of the games... but they're responsible for some of my most cherished childhood memories. BStrong is clearly a disgusting Dwarves fan, though he has nothing to cheer for since this year of our Lord ends with a non-even number. Too bad.
 
So *every* business in California that makes money by exporting water needs to be shut down? That is a very, very, very long list. And you'll find that Nestle is no where near the top.

Every business that bottles water for sale in other regions that already have their own water, yes, absolutely should be shut down. The very concept of taking a vital public resource in a time of vanishing supplies and exporting it to other regions just to make money is morally repugnant. NOt to mention unhelpful in terms of solving the public crisis.

Whoever said that every drop counts? There is always an economic balance between water savings and money spent. The amount of water used by rich landowners pales in comparison to the amount of water used for recreational lakes. Why do those drops count less? Or the billions of water wasted in inefficient storage and transport. The house is on fire, it's burning down. But you seem overly concerned that a kid in the corner is drawing an the walls.

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Thirsty poor people can't drink golf grass or washed limos.

Nonsense. A focus on politically charged issues that draws attention away from politically unfavorable plans that have the potential to actually affect change HARMS the situation.

Every drop counts. Oppose water bottlers AND grass waterers AND excessive agricultural use for luxury cash crops. NO sector of water use should be exempt from scrutiny, criticism, and if needed, control.

Of the three, agriculture at least produces some additional public good for it's investment of water (things for people to eat or feed animals that people will eventually eat.

People attack bottled water companies--despite the fact that they do not constitute a significant amount of water usage--because they're soft targets.

2.6 billion gallons is not "insignificant". That's equal to 41,600,000,000 8oz glasses of water or 5,200,000,000 person-days of water at the recommended minimum of 8 glasses/day.

Same with lawns. Then everyone gets to talk about how environmentally friendly they are and what good they're doing and we all get to join hands and sing Kumbaya about how we're saving the planet, and all the while the state continues to operate in the red when it comes to water usage.

It will be less in the red if they stop watering the lawns. The rule for getting out of a hole you've dug is to first stop digging.

The ONLY way to solve the problem is to find more fresh water, or stop using so much.

And stopping commercial appropriation of the people's fresh water and banning it's waste on lawns/etc is part of that "stop using so much".

And the ONLY ways to substantively affect water usage is to stop using so much to grow crops, or find environmental uses you are willing to halt in order to divert that water to crops. Anything else is political trickery intended to make you feel like you're doinig something without actually addressing the problem, and are in fact making it worse.

How is using LESS water by banning water bottling and lawn watering making a lack of water problem worse? It is less usage, which is what you call for.

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Please refrain from incivility and personalising your posts; address the argument not the arguer.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Agatha
 
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But some things are too important to leave to market forces. Water, for one. If California runs out of water it will be an economic disaster. Government policy can't refill the aquifers. Deciding that the affected population "deserved" it doesn't make a disaster acceptable. The consequences of CA running out of water will not be confined merely to CA.

They aren't running out of water with respect to housing, which is the Big Bad Scary thing.

It's somewhat silly to even have houses limit water use over shutting down some farming. I recall when the first round of conservation happened 25 years ago, with toilet changes and limit discs. Some of the pro forces even acknowledged that was less about real conservation than whipping the public into a frenzy. Tom Lykas, a left-oriented talk show guy at the time even bitched about it. Total home use at the time was only 11%. Save a few percent, and push off need to expand water by a year or two.

Best to just get with the picture to supply more. Hence my idea to let people who built alternative sources preen and strut around wasting it.

In this case, bite the bullet and shut down some farming. Government price supports it anyway, suggesting overproduction. Details about price supports rewarding highly the worst water-thirsty crops I will leave to an episode of The Californians.

The past year, many restaurants, including fast food, have jumped on the avocado bandwagon. Apparently the adjective "California" on a food item means a slice of avocado. I don't eat sushi, but is that the defining feature of a "California roll"?

Follow the money -- why a big push on this water-hungry California crop? Someone trying to force expanded water rights (or government compensation) over it? "But The People want lots of cheap avocados! Don't touch my water rights!"
 
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Unfortunately the way the law works it is really, really hard to compel farmers to use less water. Many of them have inalienable water rights granted to them generations ago. It sort of becomes merely a pragmatic thing to ask for conservation wherever you can rather than just throw your hands up and declare it all useless.

Aside from that California is subdivided up into numerous water districts. Some water projects almost exclusively supply residential use (see Hetch Hetchy or the Mokelumne Aqueducts).
 
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I like how all these outsiders keep telling us we're "doomed" and "stupid" and so on. People need to get some perspective. Right now the most important thing is the Dodgers winning the World Series.

Dodgers v Angels World Series. All the fantasy dudes got a major boner/copped a solid over this.
 
Unfortunately the way the law works it is really, really hard to compel farmers to use less water. Many of them have inalienable water rights granted to them generations ago. It sort of becomes merely a pragmatic thing to ask for conservation wherever you can rather than just throw your hands up and declare it all useless.

Aside from that California is subdivided up into numerous water districts. Some water projects almost exclusively supply residential use (see Hetch Hetchy or the Mokelumne Aqueducts).

Eminent Domain areas that don't conserve.
 
Oh, make no mistake, I root for the Dodgers. Granted, I never watch any of the games... but they're responsible for some of my most cherished childhood memories. BStrong is clearly a disgusting Dwarves fan, though he has nothing to cheer for since this year of our Lord ends with a non-even number. Too bad.

It's a well known fact that OBL had a Dodger's jersey and an autographed photo of Tommy Lasorda in his possession when ST6 settled his hash.

My criteria for a winning season for the Giant's is any year where they finish ahead of those Hollywood poseur's from the southland, and our friend Wki puts it this way:

" While the Dodgers have won the National League West eleven times compared to the Giants' eight since the beginning of the Divisional Era in 1969, the Giants have more total wins, head-to-head wins, largest victory, longest winning streak, more National League pennants, and World Series titles in franchise history. Each team has advanced to the postseason as the wild card twice, the Giants most recently in 2014. The 2010 World Series was the Giants' first championship since moving to California, while the Dodgers' last title came in the 1988 World Series."
 
It's time for the state legislature to pull a Mulholland and buy up some farm water rights. Maybe buy the farms, resell them with water rights "except in times of drought". Just a couple percent of the water rights ought to do the trick.
 
Unfortunately the way the law works it is really, really hard to compel farmers to use less water. Many of them have inalienable water rights granted to them generations ago. It sort of becomes merely a pragmatic thing to ask for conservation wherever you can rather than just throw your hands up and declare it all useless.

If you take actions to conserve water that will not result in using less water than you take in, it's all irrelevant anyway; it's just whistling on your way to the grave, with the added problems of slacktivism tossed in. It's pointless AND it prevents you from doing anything that has a real chance of success.

It's not pragmatic. You may as well be praying to Jesus or sacrificing goats; it'll be just as effective.

ChristianProgressive said:
2.6 billion gallons is not "insignificant".
Yes. When looking at California's water deficit, it's insignificant. You can kill ALL water-bottling companies in California and not make a substantial dent in the water deficit. Attacking them is pure emotionalism, or mathematical illiteracy.

It will be less in the red if they stop watering the lawns.
Again, not significantly--AND you have the problem of getting people to do anything that has an actual chance of success once you institute this, because "we're already doing a lot!"

Please do us all a favor and look up the numbers involved, including how much water is used by each sector. Your attacks are aimed at targets that will not do anything to alleviate the problem, as demonstrated by basic math.

And stopping commercial appropriation of the people's fresh water and banning it's waste on lawns/etc is part of that "stop using so much".
In precisely the same way that a drowning person is technically breathing. You CAN extract a small amount of oxygen from water. Guess no one ever drowns, eh? I mean, they're getting SOME oxygen, so everything's fine, right?

The reality is that the conservation methods you and your ilk are proposing are inconvenient, flashy, easily implemented, and cannot have even an observable affect on water usage. There are two legitimate targets for water conservation in California, meaning that conservation in these areas actually could reduce water use: environmental concerns and agriculture. Nothing else matters.

How is using LESS water by banning water bottling and lawn watering making a lack of water problem worse? It is less usage, which is what you call for.
Psychology. Someone who's looking at his brown, dead lawn every day isn't going to be in favor of any other water conservation measures. They've already done all they can.

Also, you've ripped my statement out of context. Using less water is necessary, but the rest of my post made it perfectly clear that I do not advocate any actions that will not substantially contribute to solving the problem. Again, there are two areas that matter: environmental concerns and agriculture. THEY need to use less water. You could cut all other sources of water COMBINED--and I mean completely eliminate them--and California would still be using more water than it has coming in. Targeting ANYTHING but environmental concerns and agriculture is a useless waste of time at best.
 
Nonsense. A focus on politically charged issues that draws attention away from politically unfavorable plans that have the potential to actually affect change HARMS the situation. People attack bottled water companies--despite the fact that they do not constitute a significant amount of water usage--because they're soft targets. Same with lawns. Then everyone gets to talk about how environmentally friendly they are and what good they're doing and we all get to join hands and sing Kumbaya about how we're saving the planet, and all the while the state continues to operate in the red when it comes to water usage.

The ONLY way to solve the problem is to find more fresh water, or stop using so much. And the ONLY ways to substantively affect water usage is to stop using so much to grow crops, or find environmental uses you are willing to halt in order to divert that water to crops. Anything else is political trickery intended to make you feel like you're doinig something without actually addressing the problem, and are in fact making it worse.


Spot on post.

Too bad farmers = corporations and people = sheep.
 
It's time for the state legislature to pull a Mulholland and buy up some farm water rights. Maybe buy the farms, resell them with water rights "except in times of drought". Just a couple percent of the water rights ought to do the trick.

I can get behind this.
 
Yes. When looking at California's water deficit, it's insignificant. You can kill ALL water-bottling companies in California and not make a substantial dent in the water deficit. Attacking them is pure emotionalism, or mathematical illiteracy.

2.6 billion gallons (the amount stolen and wasted by water bottlers) is not "insignificant". That's equal to 41,600,000,000 8oz glasses of water or 5,200,000,000 person-days of water at the recommended minimum of 8 glasses/day.

Using last year's population estimate (38.8 million), that works out to 67 days of water per year taken from CA. Over 2 months worth of human consumption of water. By the way, Nestea alone has been stealing/wasting CA water for over 27 years now (and on an expired permit at that).

http://www.newsweek.com/nestles-california-water-permit-expired-27-years-ago-321940

So lets add all that up: 67 days of water for people/ year x 27 years (minimum) that water bottling has been going on = 1,809 days or over 4 years of personal consumption water that should have been in the aquafers but isn't just to make money for water bottlers.

That is far from "insignificant". Just ask some of the residents of CA who are ALREADY out of recoverable water what they'd give for those years' worth of water.

http://www.latimes.com/local/great-reads/la-me-c1-east-porterville-20140918-story.html#page=1
 

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