"But Global Warming is a HOAX!!!"

[Myriad]

We could easily adapt to the maximum amount the seas will rise if we do nothing.
At worst it will be about 200m. It sounds bad, but most land is above that, and there is enough flat land to use then.

All we need to do is start moving populations from the areas most affected, (most of Africa, the Middle East, India, Mexico, the American midwest and coastal areas, the whole of Southern Europe, Indonesia, and any European city near a coast) to locations that will become usable. Northern Canada and Northern Russia are vast areas of flat land that will become usable then.
Not to mention Greenland and Antartica.

Sure, there are no cities or infrastructure there, so we would need to build that. And the land is currently unable to support agriculture, so we would need to ensure the soil becomes useful. And of course we'd need to integrate all these different cultures. And maybe the governments currently owning these areas might have a different opinion.

But if we all pull together we can do that, after all it's not like mass migrations due to environmental changes in the past ever led to problems.

So let's not hurt today's economy by being careful, as that would deny humanity of the future the joy of such a challenge.

Well said (for those whose sarcasm detectors are working, at least)!

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

The main problem with your idea is that there is no actual "we".
In Europe, the Dutch (30m), the Danes (34m), the Estonians (61m), the Latvians (87m), the Lithuanians (110m), the Irish (118m), the Moldovans (139m), the Hungarians (143m), the British (162m), the Fins (164m), the Belarusians (170m), the Polish (173m), the Ukrainians (175m) and the Belgians (181m) will probably disagree with you.
List of countries by average elevation (Wikipedia)

Outside of Europe, the Maldivians (1.5m) will be the first to go.

I meant 'we' as in humanity. And hell, even here in the Netherlands the majority of voters is willing to vote for parties that either outright deny climate change or at least ignore it until it goes away.

 

[Myriad]

There is no worldwide 'addiction to consumerism', and even if there were, CO₂ emissions wouldn't depend on consumption but on how the products for consumption were produced:
By using wind and solar power? No CO₂ emissions!
By using fossil fuel? Contributes directly to the greenhouse effect!
If the electricity fueling your Tesla comes from fossil fuels, you might as well drive a gas guzzler.

67% of electricity in Denmark in the first six months of 2023 was solar or wind. In the first six months of last year, it was only 51%. Wind and solar is now also cheaper than other kinds of electrical power.
Grøn strøm satte nye rekorder i første halvår (Ritzau/Energy-Supply.dk, July 10, 2023)

Renewable electricity is a good step.

That just leaves concrete, global shipping, fertilizer, and recreational travel to eliminate (or power with renewable sources only). Then hopefully we can continue using some fossil fuels for vital agricultural and industrial machinery, plastics, and aerospace.

Though I expect people in Las Vegas and Orlando and Rio and Cairo and Rome and Sydney and a few other places to complain about this plan. As well as people who like eating food.

 

[Silly Green Monkey]

Las Vegas is powered by the Hoover Dam, Cairo might be by the Assan....is hydroelectric lumped in with fossil fuels?

 

[Myriad]

Las Vegas is powered by the Hoover Dam...

But its economy is powered by jet fuel. Like other tourist destinations, to varying degrees. (Vegas and Orlando are among the extreme cases, though. Paris, Rome, Rio etc. are at least viable cities in their own right.)

 

[lobosrul5]

Las Vegas is powered by the Hoover Dam, Cairo might be by the Assan....is hydroelectric lumped in with fossil fuels?

The amount of concrete needed to build such dams leads to considerable greenhouse gas emissions is maybe what he was alluding to. Not sure though. And since they're already built I don't know why it would matter.

Ah, nevermind. Ninja'd. Yeah anywhere that needs considerable tourism by jet is going to be screwed if hydrocarbon based transportation is banned. And, electric powered air transport is just a pipe dream at this point.

 

[newyorkguy]

Ironic someone mentions that Las Vegas is powered by the Hoover Dam. Hoover Dam is fed by Lake Mead. Both are at much reduced capacity due to historically severe drought conditions. Guess what?

Climate change has led to hotter, drier conditions in Nevada that have accelerated the depletion of Lake Mead. Lake Mead is an artificial lake created by the Hoover Dam. Its water source is the Colorado River, which itself is supplied by snowmelt from the Colorado Rockies.

Heat-trapping greenhouse gas emissions from the burning of fossil fuels and other human activities have warmed the planet. The resulting temperature increases and changing precipitation patterns in the Southwest have reduced snowpack and rain and dried out soils, contributing to lower water levels at Lake Mead and other waterbodies. Nevada Independent news site link

We can't win.

 

[Norman Alexander]

Ironic someone mentions that Las Vegas is powered by the Hoover Dam. Hoover Dam is fed by Lake Mead. Both are at much reduced capacity due to historically severe drought conditions. Guess what?


We can't win.

There's a HUGE amount of free sunshine happening all over Nevada. If only there was some method of turning it into electricity...

 

[newyorkguy]

The City of Las Vegas is already 100% solar-powered.

The City of Las Vegas made an announcement last month [December 2016] that kinda got lost in the hubbub of politics and holidays. Its energy sources are now 100 percent renewable. That means all city buildings, street lights, traffic signals, lights for public parks. Everything the City of Las Vegas owns is now powered 100 percent by renewable energy. But the future isn't quite here yet. All of the CITY OWNED buildings are powered by renewable energy. But the hundreds of thousands of home, and various privately owned businesses are not. Nevada Public Radio news link from 2017

As of last year the situation had brightened (so to speak). Environment Nevada reported:

Las Vegas ranked no. 2 in the U.S. for installed solar photovoltaic (PV) capacity per capita in the latest edition of the Environment Nevada Research & Policy Center’s report Shining Cities: The Top U.S. Cities for Solar Energy. The report, which is the eighth edition of America’s most comprehensive survey of installed solar PV capacity in major U.S. cities, designates Las Vegas a ‘Solar Superstar,’ meaning it boasts 100 or more watts of solar PV capacity installed per capita. Environment Nevada link

 

[dann]

Renewable electricity is a good step.

That just leaves concrete, global shipping, fertilizer, and recreational travel to eliminate (or power with renewable sources only).

Which is why those things have to switch from fossil fuels to solar and wind (electrical power):

Cement is an energy-intensive industry, but currently, electricity accounts for circa 12% within the energy mix, while the rest is various fuels.
Powering the Cement Industry (cembureau.eu)

Decarbonizing the global maritime industry (ZeroCarbonShipping)
Fertiliser emissions could be cut to ‘one-fifth of current levels’ by 2050 (Food and Farming, Feb 9, 2023)
Are electric planes ready for takeoff? (dw, Jan 24, 2023)

And those empty promises of 'could be cut ... by 2050' could usually be cut much sooner if a bit of effort were put into the alleged attempts instead of waiting for it to get cheaper than using fossil fuels.

Then hopefully we can continue using some fossil fuels for vital agricultural and industrial machinery, plastics, and aerospace.
Though I expect people in Las Vegas and Orlando and Rio and Cairo and Rome and Sydney and a few other places to complain about this plan. As well as people who like eating food.

People who like eating food are not the problem. The people who like other people to be able to eat only ****** cheap food are. So are the people who won't pay them enough be able to afford anything other than ****** cheap food, and the people whose money is invested in fossil fuels.

Those people are also the ones complaining the loudest. Ordinary people don't have much of a say about how their food is produced, but the manufacturers always blame them: 'I would love to go organic and let my chickens and pigs to live long and fulfilling lives, but the customers won't pay me to do so. They, the consumers, force me to torture the chickens and produce food full of pesticides and other poison!'


ETA: One of my pet peeves: Cities and suburbs could lower CO₂ emissions substantially by becoming more bike friendly. And on top of that, it would improve people's health considerably.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Which is why those things have to switch from fossil fuels to solar and wind (electrical power):

Decarbonizing the global maritime industry (ZeroCarbonShipping)
Fertiliser emissions could be cut to ‘one-fifth of current levels’ by 2050 (Food and Farming, Feb 9, 2023)
Are electric planes ready for takeoff? (dw, Jan 24, 2023)

And those empty promises of 'could be cut ... by 2050' could usually be cut much sooner if a bit of effort were put into the alleged attempts instead of waiting for it to get cheaper than using fossil fuels.




People who like eating food are not the problem. The people who like other people to be able to eat only ****** cheap food are. So are the people who won't pay them enough be able to afford anything other than ****** cheap food, and the people whose money is invested in fossil fuels.

Those people are also the ones complaining the loudest. Ordinary people don't have much of a say about how their food is produced, but the manufacturers always blame them: 'I would love to go organic and let my chickens and pigs to live long and fulfilling lives, but the customers won't pay me to do so. They, the consumers, force me to torture the chickens and produce food full of pesticides and other poison!'


ETA: One of my pet peeves: Cities and suburbs could lower CO₂ emissions substantially by becoming more bike friendly. And on top of that, it would improve people's health considerably.

Concrete is a tricky one because the chemical reaction that hardens concrete itself releases considerable amounts of CO2. Even taking energy entirely out of the equation concrete generates greenhouse gases.

As a coincidence, a colleague of mine left the company to go work at a start up trying to develop a concrete technology that doesn't release CO2 when curing, instead producing some other, non-gaseous byproduct. No idea how well it's going.

 

[wobs]

ETA: One of my pet peeves: Cities and suburbs could lower CO₂ emissions substantially by becoming more bike friendly. And on top of that, it would improve people's health considerably.

This.

Although apparently Copenhagen is not the best cycling city. It seems to get voted so by its residents.
NotJustBikes and ClimateTown did two films together on the subject of this:

 

[wobs]

Concrete is a tricky one because the chemical reaction that hardens concrete itself releases considerable amounts of CO2. Even taking energy entirely out of the equation concrete generates greenhouse gases.

As a coincidence, a colleague of mine left the company to go work at a start up trying to develop a concrete technology that doesn't release CO2 when curing, instead producing some other, non-gaseous byproduct. No idea how well it's going.

It would help if certain countries stopped building pointless megaprojects (eg. Dubai), including cities that no one wants to live in (eg. China). That's not to say that all mega projects are pointless, some are worthwhile.

And everyone should stop building skyscrapers. Huge waste of concrete, inefficient, and bad for people.

Also, building smaller would enable more wood/steel to be used.

 

[newyorkguy]

Sunday saw torrential rains sweep across parts of New York State, the heaviest rain -- as much as three inches per hour -- about fifty miles north of New York City. Governor Kathy Hochul visited the hardest hit areas Monday. She called it the latest example of the destructive force of climate change.

Hochul said the heavy rain and flooding was just the latest in unprecedented weather events hitting the state over and over. Nine months ago a massive snowstorm swept through and recently a mass of unhealthy air that passed through from wildfires in Canada. "Once again, the skies opened up and wrought so much rain − nine inches of rain in this community − that they're calling this a 1,000-year event," the governor said, adding that government and communities must work together to fight climate change's ravages.

Below is a main road through the West Point Military Academy, still flooded after Sunday's rain. West Point got over eight inches of rain in a few hours.

[IMGW=500]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1474&pictureid=13607[/IMGW]

 

[varwoche]

Only fools buy the idea that there is such a thing as "the greenhouse effect", let alone that CO2 is a "greenhouse gas".

It must be frustrating that every university in the world teaches something that you know to be wrong. See, the red pill has downsides.

 

[kookbreaker]

It must be frustrating that every university in the world teaches something that you know to be wrong. See, the red pill has downsides.

And then when you cry that these are elitists liberals you watch as the capitalist insurance companies are reducing how much business they will do in states that are going to be underwater in the long term, and will flood constantly in the shorter term.

Maybe Isthisthelife thinks he can sell those houses to Aquaman?

 

[lobosrul5]

https://twitter.com/EliotJacobson/s...4?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^tweet

Well, we're beyond the 20k year barrier. 7 hottest days in the last 100k years have all happened this month. We average 2 days a year over 100F where I'm at. And it looks like we'll get to about 15 of those by mid July.

 

[novaphile]

We could easily adapt to the maximum amount the seas will rise if we do nothing.
At worst it will be about 200m. It sounds bad, but most land is above that, and there is enough flat land to use then.

All we need to do is start moving populations from the areas most affected, (most of Africa, the Middle East, India, Mexico, the American midwest and coastal areas, the whole of Southern Europe, Indonesia, and any European city near a coast) to locations that will become usable. Northern Canada and Northern Russia are vast areas of flat land that will become usable then.
Not to mention Greenland and Antartica.

Sure, there are no cities or infrastructure there, so we would need to build that. And the land is currently unable to support agriculture, so we would need to ensure the soil becomes useful. And of course we'd need to integrate all these different cultures. And maybe the governments currently owning these areas might have a different opinion.

But if we all pull together we can do that, after all it's not like mass migrations due to environmental changes in the past ever led to problems.

So let's not hurt today's economy by being careful, as that would deny humanity of the future the joy of such a challenge.

The only problem with moving people to area like Greenland, Northern Canada, Northern Russia and Antarctica is that there is no soil there.

People imagine that we can all move into peat bogs and breath the Carbon Dioxide and Methane that those bogs emit as they thaw, as easily as you can move from one house to another.

Sadly, this is not the case.

People live in the good places now, if the good places go away, really bad things happen.

 

[novaphile]

There is no worldwide 'addiction to consumerism', and even if there were, CO₂ emissions wouldn't depend on consumption but on how the products for consumption were produced:
By using wind and solar power? No CO₂ emissions!
By using fossil fuel? Contributes directly to the greenhouse effect!
If the electricity fueling your Tesla comes from fossil fuels, you might as well drive a gas guzzler.
67% of electricity in Denmark in the first six months of 2023 was solar or wind. In the first six months of last year, it was only 51%. Wind and solar is now also cheaper than other kinds of electrical power.
Grøn strøm satte nye rekorder i første halvår (Ritzau/Energy-Supply.dk, July 10, 2023)

This is not true.

It is much more efficient, from a climate change perspective, to burn fossil fuel in a power plant (and deal with the emissions in one place) than to burn it in individual car engines, making massive losses in converting the fuel to work.

 

[newyorkguy]

Being widely reported:

Severe heat continues to build in Arizona and across the Southwest, with conditions in Phoenix threatening to become the city’s longest heat wave on record, according to the National Weather Service. High temperatures in Phoenix have been in the triple digits every day for nearly a month. A persistent heat dome over the Southwest is bringing “anomalously hot summer weather” to the region, the weather service said Tuesday in its short-range forecast. Yahoo news link

[IMGW=400]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1474&pictureid=13609[/IMGW]

FAKE NEWS - MAGA!!!​