Bush to lead disaster inquiry

[davefoc]

Bush said:

What I intend to do is to lead an investigation to find out what went right and what went wrong, but the enquiry won’t be pointing the finger at anyone. We want to make sure that we can respond properly if there’s a WMD attack or another major storm.

This struck me as a depressingly stupid thing to say. We are going to spend a bunch of money on a government enquiry to figure out what went wrong but we aren't going to actually assign any blame to anybody. How does this work?

Was this just politically correct babble that a politician feels forced to say at the beginning of a serious inquiry into what went wrong or is it Bush's real intent to hold an enquiry that obfuscates the facts so that any legitimate assignment of blame can be prevented.

 

[claimee]

State of Emergency Declared in Mississippi, Louisiana DueIn anticipation of a possible landfall, Mississippi Governor Haley Barbour and Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco declared States of Emergency Friday. In Louisiana, New Orleans is of particular concern because much of that city lies below sea level.
According to Gov. Blanco, Lake Pontchartrain is a very large lake that sits next to the city of New Orleans and if the hurricane winds blow from a certain direction, there are dire predictions of what may happen in the city.

FEMA, August 27, 2005

 

[varwoche]

what held up the relief efforts for so many days? If a hurricane of this size were heading toward Kennebunkport, do you honestly think it would have taken so long to mobilize help?

You are intermixing pre-hurricane with post-hurricane and I'm not sure I get your point.

Should there have been a greater federal effort before the hurricane hit? In retrospect, is this true for all hurricanes?

Also, I think Bush's initial refusal of international aid was moronic.

I mostly disagree. It makes no sense for aid to flow from poorer nations to richer nations. So while I appreciate offers of aid from a country like Jamaica, I too would refuse it.

That said, it's interesting that countries -- even poor ones -- are big on (verbally) rejecting foriegn aid to help with natural disasters. It seems like a national pride sort of thing, which is weird.

 

[ShowMe]

I ask this in all politeness...but what held up the relief efforts for so many days? If a hurricane of this size were heading toward Kennebunkport, do you honestly think it would have taken so long to mobilize help? (And, no, I don't think it had anything to with race at all.)

Local incompetence & inability to give up control even when they knew they were in way over their heads.

Logistics. It takes an awful lot to move just a single bus, let alone the large number required for a disaster of this size. And the fact that the locals dropped the ball caused even more delay.

Lack of communications. The NO Police Department backup communications relied on a natural Gas generator, all of which was located below sea level. In a city prone to flooding their emergency communications depended upon a utility.

The fact that Federal aspects of the government actually have very little control over states, overall.


Do you realize the only reason the evacuation was started as early as it was is because President Bush personally called the Governor and suggested the city begin the evacuation?

That's not White House spin. It's in the Associated Press story on Aug. 28, the day before the storm, which quotes Gov. Blanco as saying that "President Bush called and personally appealed for a mandatory evacuation for the low-lying city."

Every bit of evidence so far is pointing to an incredible lapse of leadership on the local level.

Also, I think Bush's initial refusal of international aid was moronic.

I have no doubt that you do. Though I have seen no evidence that this, in fact, happened.

And if Bush personally stopped this aid of which you speak, explain to me how it would have made an iota of difference? Louisiana couldn't even get the folks that were under *their control* organized.

 

[ceptimus]

The point I was trying to make when I started this thread was not that President Bush was necessarily responsible for the delay in getting aid to New Orleans and surrounding areas.

Rather it was that because his own actions (or lack of) in organising the aid may be seen by some to be at least partly the cause of the delay, then he is not the right person to lead the inquiry.

The inquiry should be led by someone with some degree of impartiallity, and should be able to point the finger of blame at whomever it decides was responsible for the delay, including (possibly) President Bush himself.

With Bush leading the inquiry, it will be seen by many to be a whitewash, even if it isn't.

 

[Mark]

You are intermixing pre-hurricane with post-hurricane and I'm not sure I get your point.

Should there have been a greater federal effort before the hurricane hit? In retrospect, is this true for all hurricanes?

I mostly disagree. It makes no sense for aid to flow from poorer nations to richer nations. So while I appreciate offers of aid from a country like Jamaica, I too would refuse it.

That said, it's interesting that countries -- even poor ones -- are big on (verbally) rejecting foriegn aid to help with natural disasters. It seems like a national pride sort of thing, which is weird.

There should have been movement as soon as it was clear the hurricane was going to hit. Sunday or Monday, latest. That is all I am saying. Bush should have (horrors!) cut short his bloody vacation and done his job.

I am not blaming Bush alone for ignoring the Army Corps of Engineers. That blame can be shared by (at least) Clinton and Bush Sr.

And by refusing international aid, we made ourselves look arrogant and foolish.

 

[corplinx]

Also, I think Bush's initial refusal of international aid was moronic.

In hindsight perhaps, however at the time damage assessments had not been done.

 

[Mark]

In hindsight perhaps, however at the time damage assessments had not been done.

I meant as international P.R.

When my wife died, everyone around here wanted to help (I am much better liked in person than I am here ). At first I kept refusing out of misplaced pride, but then it was pointed out to me that people wanted to help; and that by refusing their aid, I was hurting their feelings and even insulting them. Extrapolate that to international affairs and you get my point.

 

[davefoc]

The point I was trying to make when I started this thread was not that President Bush was necessarily responsible for the delay in getting aid to New Orleans and surrounding areas.

Rather it was that because his own actions (or lack of) in organising the aid may be seen by some to be at least partly the cause of the delay, then he is not the right person to lead the inquiry.

The inquiry should be led by someone with some degree of impartiallity, and should be able to point the finger of blame at whomever it decides was responsible for the delay, including (possibly) President Bush himself.

With Bush leading the inquiry, it will be seen by many to be a whitewash, even if it isn't.

This, I think is such an obvious point that I am wondering if the fact that Bush would even think about leading such an inquiry isn't one more piece of evidence that Bush is not qualified to be president. It is the first time in my recollection that such an important inquiry would be headed by the president. Putting the best face on it for Bush I suppose that what he may have meant is that his administration will launch an investigation into the situation in addition to other more independent inquiries that will follow. But mostly, I have a hard time seeing this as anything but a failure by Bush to understand the situation. If his administration performed flawlessly and most of the problems were the result of local failures how exactly could his inquiry publish such a finding with the remotest semblance of credibility.

 

[King of the Americas]

Thank You Psi Baba:

I was waiting for someone to timeline this event, I knew I'd see it here first...

I understood that the levees didn't 'break', but were overrun THEN broke. Such is usually the case with dams and levees, they are designed to 'hold' water, not to act like a pouring agent.

Although, I did hear the President say, "I don't think anyone anticipated the levees breaking..." It seems that he was the ONLY one who wasn't aware of this. People have been predicting with astute accuracy what would happen if N.O. was hit by a huricane bigger than a catagory 3. I read an article referencing 3 different computer models based on what kind of damage would be done to N.O. given different scenerios and storm sizes. All 3 models predicted levee breaches even given a catagory 3 storm.

SO...Mr. President, there is a catagory 4 huricane headed for N.O., that could gain strength and become a cat 5. What should be done next?

Well hind sight being what it is, it is EASY now to say what should have been done.

But what I just can't get past, is how S--L--O--W--L--Y everything moved around this thing. The Mayor waits too long to evacate poeple, the Governor waits too long to send in troops to keep the peace, FEMA waits too long to set up emergency food and water depots inside the city, and the President is completely out of the loop not even aware that major flooding is certain within N.O. In short, you had breakdowns and mistakes made at EVERY level.

A prediction: A 9-11 styled independent 'Commission' will find that no ONE person was at fault, and that no ONE person needs to be fired or removed from their positions in and around emergency management agencies. Moreover, they will provide a list of initiatives that need to be undertaken to better protect us in the future, but their warnings won't be heeded in time to help those in the coming disaster(s).

 

[King of the Americas]

Key note to remember:

When EVERYONE f#cks up so bad, the the term FUBAR is the only one relivant, no one gets fired...

Michael Brown is 'removed' from the disaster management team, but remains head of F.E.M.A.

'nuff said.

 

[King of the Americas]

Mike Brown...

...falls on his sword, to save the President the embarrasment of having to fire him.

Will this be the only blood spilt over the government failures???

How about a State recall of the Governor, for 'holding up' supply shipments to the Superdome because she wanted people to 'leave' town, rather than making the dome a point of destination for other New Orleanians???

How about bringing up the Mayor on charges for NOT following the pre-disaster plan to evacuate people out within "48" hours before the storm hit??? Although I think his being there, in the Superdome, gives him some ground on which to stand and point the blame finger.

 

[Renfield]

The levees didn't BREAK until a day after the storm had passed. How's that for an "excuse"? You know, that the bulk of the actual disaster hadn't happened yet?

Sheesh, some people won't be pleased until W puts on a cape and repairs the levees with his heat vision.

Actually they broke on Monday, the same day the storm passed. Hours later.

 

[Renfield]

Maybe, but at least I know that Tuesday falls between Monday and Wednesday. You seem to have conveniently forgotten that fact in your rush to smear blood on Bush's hands.

Think about it for a second, you'll figure it out.

The levees didn't break on Tuesday. Google some news articles from Tuesday morning, the day AFTER the storm passed. Don't listen to the right wing pundits for your information.

 

[Renfield]

Local incompetence & inability to give up control even when they knew they were in way over their heads.

Logistics. It takes an awful lot to move just a single bus, let alone the large number required for a disaster of this size. And the fact that the locals dropped the ball caused even more delay.

Lack of communications. The NO Police Department backup communications relied on a natural Gas generator, all of which was located below sea level. In a city prone to flooding their emergency communications depended upon a utility.

The fact that Federal aspects of the government actually have very little control over states, overall.


Do you realize the only reason the evacuation was started as early as it was is because President Bush personally called the Governor and suggested the city begin the evacuation?

That's not White House spin. It's in the Associated Press story on Aug. 28, the day before the storm, which quotes Gov. Blanco as saying that "President Bush called and personally appealed for a mandatory evacuation for the low-lying city."

Every bit of evidence so far is pointing to an incredible lapse of leadership on the local level.





I have no doubt that you do. Though I have seen no evidence that this, in fact, happened.

And if Bush personally stopped this aid of which you speak, explain to me how it would have made an iota of difference? Louisiana couldn't even get the folks that were under *their control* organized.

"
Statement on Federal Emergency Assistance for Louisiana

The President today declared an emergency exists in the State of Louisiana and ordered Federal aid to supplement state and local response efforts in the parishes located in the path of Hurricane Katrina beginning on August 26, 2005, and continuing.

The President's action authorizes the Department of Homeland Security, Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), to coordinate
all disaster relief efforts which have the purpose of alleviating the hardship and suffering caused by the emergency on the local population, and to provide appropriate assistance for required emergency measures, authorized under Title V of the Stafford Act, to save lives, protect property and public health and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a catastrophe in the parishes of Allen, Avoyelles, Beauregard, Bienville, Bossier, Caddo, Caldwell, Claiborne, Catahoula, Concordia, De Soto, East Baton Rouge, East Carroll, East Feliciana, Evangeline, Franklin, Grant, Jackson, LaSalle, Lincoln, Livingston, Madison, Morehouse, Natchitoches, Pointe Coupee, Ouachita, Rapides, Red River, Richland, Sabine, St. Helena, St. Landry, Tensas, Union, Vernon, Webster, West Carroll, West Feliciana, and Winn.

Specifically, FEMA is authorized to identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency. Debris removal and emergency protective measures, including direct Federal assistance, will be provided at 75 percent Federal funding. "



Sounds pretty unambiguous to me.






"Fox's Hume, Wilson take cue from conservative blogs, repeat unfounded claim that Bush "pleaded" with New Orleans mayor to evacuate city"

http://mediamatters.org/items/200509060011

 

[WildCat]

This blogger makes a case for a scapegoat... Major General Bennett C. Landreneau, head of the Louisiana Dept. of Homeland Security:

Mayor Nagin depended on Landreneau to move and feed and protect the citizens of New Orleans. That did not happen. Nagin depended on Landreneau to give people good answers on how to find shelter and food. That did not happen. Governor Blanco depended on Landreneau to keep her informed on the next step to restore order and help the victims. That did not happen. Blanco depended on Landreneau to coordinate with the Red Cross and Salvation Army to get people what they needed. That did not happen. President Bush depended on Landreneau to do his job. That did not happen.

Please read before commenting.

 

[zakur]

Interesting development:

Nonpartisan congressional research report finds Louisiana governor took necessary steps

The Congressional Research Service (CRS) issued a report Tuesday afternoon asserting that Louisiana governor Katherine Blanco took the necessary and timely steps needed to secure disaster relief from the federal government.

The report, which comes after a request by Rep. John Conyers (D-MI) to review the law and legal accountability relating to Federal action in response to Hurricane Katrina, unequivocally concludes that she did.

ETA: Full text of report

 

[WildCat]

Interesting development:

Nonpartisan congressional research report finds Louisiana governor took necessary stepsETA: Full text of report

Good grief, that's the most illegible pdf file I have ever seen! What the hell was that, a scan of a scan of a scan of a photocopy that was found at the bottom of Lake Pontchartrain?

Anyway, why is the authors name blacked out? And as far as non-partisan goes, Conyers name is the only one I could see on it, though there could have been more in that mess. I particularly liked the pages scanned at a 90 degree angle from how things are read... wtf?

 

[zakur]

Good grief, that's the most illegible pdf file I have ever seen! What the hell was that, a scan of a scan of a scan of a photocopy that was found at the bottom of Lake Pontchartrain?

Anyway, why is the authors name blacked out? And as far as non-partisan goes, Conyers name is the only one I could see on it, though there could have been more in that mess. I particularly liked the pages scanned at a 90 degree angle from how things are read... wtf?

It appears to be a scan of a fax. The 90 degree pages at the end appear to be printouts of web pages attached as appendices to the report. I hope that a more legible copy (the original, perhaps) will be made available soon.

As to the non-partisanship nature of the report, it was issued by the Congressional Research Service, a branch of the Library of Congress.

That said, I do realize some on the Right think all librarians are pinko commie Liberals.

 

[crimresearch]

Oh, give me a break!

EVEN I KNEW there would be a disaster there!!!!! And you think Bush didn't?

"Hey, Mr. President, a possible Category 5 hurricane is going to hit New Orleans, and the levees are only built to withstand a category 3! What should we do?"

Bush: "Well, I am going to a Republican fund raiser in California. Not to worry! When the disaster hits, my minions will just excuse my behavior anyway."

Fictional conversation...but that is in effect what happened.

Really? That's funny, I could have sworn that the Category 5 hurricane missed New Orleans on the weak side, leaving minimal wind damage and very little flooding, along with a slowly crumbling levee.

And that said hurricane actually devastated a lot of people hundreds of miles away from New Orleans.

At least that's what happened on this planet.

But feel free to put up evidence that Katrina really made this direct hit on NOLA, and blew down the levees.