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Burning Painted Steel Beams, Making Iron-Rich Microspheres!

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Mar 23, 2010
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Burning Painted Steel Beams, Making Iron-Rich Microspheres!

Here are some photographs and results from a little experiment I did last May. While Truthers claim that only Thermite can create iron-rich microspheres, the video above shows some doozies being created by burning primer-painted steel beams in an ordinary wood fire in a burn barrel.

Here is the orange-primer-painted steel beam I obtained at the New Mexico Tech boneyard. We cut it in half after selection.

beams.jpg


I filled our burn-barrel with cedar wood, and prepared to light the fire.

firewood.jpg


I used paper and a few squirts of barbecue lighter fluid (representing tens of thousands of gallons of jet fuel) to get the fire going.

barrelfire.jpg


Once the fire was going well, I gently placed one of the painted beams into the fire.

theFire.jpg


Here are the post-fire control and burned beams.

beams-after.jpg


These beams were far too large to be placed inside the scanning electron microscope, so I had to obtain samples by pressing an adhesive surface on the beams (very ineffective), or by scraping paint samples off the beams, choosing regions with paint only, and no ash residue (much more effective).

samples.jpg


After the samples were prepared for the Scanning Electron Microscope (SEM), we scoured the un-burned samples, looking for anything remotely resembling a sphere. We found lots of tiny white blobs, but nothing at all spheroidal. Here is sample unburned#2, from a typical location (in the 3rd region examined).

Unburned2-3.jpg


Here is the EDX (Energy-dispersive X-ray) spectroscopy results for point 1 (one of the white blobs):

Unburned2-3-p1.jpg


It shows lots of lead and chromium, and is most likely lead chromate (PbCrO4). There is also quite a bit of carbon.

An EDX spectrogram of one of the dark areas (Point 2) showed similar composition:

Unburned2-3-p2.jpg


Things got really interesting when we started looking over the burned samples. It wasn't long at all before we stumbled over this beautifully spherical droplet of iron-rich material:

Burned1-2.jpg


Here is the EDX of Point#1, right on the big sphere. This sample has a lot of iron!

Burned1-2-p1.jpg


And here's the spectrogram of a point not on the sphere:

Burned1-2-p2.jpg


This shows a lot of silicon, magnesium, and chromium, but not nearly as much iron as the sphere.

We kept looking, and soon found another microsphere on a different region of the burned sample:

Burned1-4.jpg


Its EDX also showed that it was also very rich in iron (Fe), with a little oxygen:

Burned1-4-p1.jpg


Now, on this page, Talboo and Zugam quote Neils Harrit:

As noted by Harrit elsewhere, the "paper is a set of data and the best hypothesis rationalizing the observations." He emphasizes that spheres of reduced iron "are observed after a thermite reaction," and that such "spheroids have never been observed unless there was a thermite reaction."


The Basile.org article shows micrographs and their spectra for Fig. 24 from the Harrit/Bentham paper on "Nanothermitic Incendiaries": "Spheres formed during ignition of commercial thermite, with corresponding typical XEDS spectrum":
spheres_commercial_s.png
xeds_commercial_s.png



And also, Fig. 25: "Spheres formed during ignition of red/gray chip in DSC, with corresponding typical XEDS spectrum ..." :
spheres_chips_s.png
xeds_chips_s.png



And finally, for Fig. 27 and 28: "Spheres extracted from WTC dust" and "XEDS spectrum from a sphere found in the WTC dust":
spheres_wtc_s.png
xeds_wtc_s.png


The Basile.org article notes that

Harrit et al. state that they found iron spheres "with Fe:O ratios up to approximately 4:1..."

and, they make a lot of noise about Harrit's microspheres being "reduced iron."

But just look at their spectra, and at the spectra of the burn-barrel microspheres above. The "ordinary fire" produces microspheres with more iron than oxygen, while the "thermitic" samples in the Basile.org article all show comparable amounts of oxygen and iron, which leads to my conclusion:

Hey, Basile.org, your WTC sphere has more oxygen than iron! If high Fe:O ratios are so important, why are yours so low?

There are many ways this experiment could be improved, using perhaps a controlled heating protocol, for which the temperature of formation of iron-rich microspheres from the combustion of painted steel could be obtained. Thoughtful suggestions for future work will be given thoughtful consideration.

Discuss.

Oh, by the way, there are more fun videos at NMSR's YouTube Channel. Why not subscribe today? ;)
 
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Dave I'm really grateful for your work on this. When I asked you to do something like this experiment, I really didn't know if we would find microspheres at all, or if there would be iron-rich spheres. Their presence after a regular fire with steel and paint primer knocks down a major contention of the 9/11 Truth thermite assertions. Wow! Neils Harrit wrote to, I think Oystein, and said something like, if we find iron-rich spheres after a regular fire with prosaic paint, then halleluliah, more data! Let's see now how the 9/11 Truth community responds to this. There's always room for improvement... like doing this with DSC and measuring the exothermicalness of thereaction etc. but I can;t see how anyone can deny what you DID do and the conclusion that prosaic paint on steel can indeed create iron-rich microspheres when burned. Great job!
 
Dave I'm really grateful for your work on this. When I asked you to do something like this experiment, I really didn't know if we would find microspheres at all, or if there would be iron-rich spheres. Their presence after a regular fire with steel and paint primer knocks down a major contention of the 9/11 Truth thermite assertions. Wow! Neils Harrit wrote to, I think Oystein, and said something like, if we find iron-rich spheres after a regular fire with prosaic paint, then halleluliah, more data! Let's see now how the 9/11 Truth community responds to this. There's always room for improvement... like doing this with DSC and measuring the exothermicalness of thereaction etc. but I can;t see how anyone can deny what you DID do and the conclusion that prosaic paint on steel can indeed create iron-rich microspheres when burned. Great job!

Thanks,Chris!
like.jpg
 
Iron rich micro-spheres can be found in fire; why can't 911 truth do science. Will 911 truth followers start thinking for themselves.

I love science; great job. It is not news iron spheres can be products of fire. Cool seeing an experiment, and the lab work to show those who can't do reality based research.

Thank you
 
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Great stuff :)

I'll predict they'll say you found too much iron in your spheres: "No true thermitic reaction would produce that much iron" ;)
 
Thanks again, Dave! A great work:cool:

I think that the second microsphere, sticked on the surface, could (basically) originate not from the burned paint itself, but e.g. from this steel barrel (?). But the first microsphere is "immersed" in the paint ash, so it should originate from the paint on steel beam.

And, anyway, both microspheres were simply created at "low temperatures" of burning wood;)

I hope that your results could convince some better oriented truthers, but "true nanothermite believers" like Talboo or Zugam cannot be convinced by anything.
Anyway, you just proved experimentally what we have claimed for years: that such iron rich microspheres are by no means the proof of thermitic reaction:cool:
 
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There's always room for improvement... like doing this with DSC and measuring the exothermicalness of the reaction etc. but I can;t see how anyone can deny what you DID do and the conclusion that prosaic paint on steel can indeed create iron-rich microspheres when burned. Great job!

Chris: there is really no need to measure closely the exothermic effects of burning this paint (or any other paint with polymer binder). Some exotherms will be observed for sure in the temperature range ca 350-550 degrees C, exactly like in Bentham paper:cool:
 
Dave: So paradoxically, EDX spectra of your microspheres are closer to the expected product of thermitic reaction (pure Fe) than the spectra of Bentham microspheres and the spectrum of microsphere created by burning of real thermite;)

This again proves how nonsensical/unsupported is the claim "it was thermite!" just after looking at some very few spectra of such microspheres...
 
Hi Dave,

congratulations, you did a pretty good job! Now some comments:

1. Do you know the composition of the paint? It is obvious that lead chromate was used as pigment, but what the other components of the paint? Most interesting would be the binder.

2. Some experimental details should be added:

  • How were the samples treated before the SEM/EDX investigation (e.g. coating)?
  • What was the acceleration voltage of the EDX measurements?
  • Were the SEM micrographs recorded in SE or BSE modus (my guess: SE modus)?

3. Some suggestions for further experiments:

  • As the discovered microspheres are rather big, I think it should be possible to detect them using a light microscope.
  • It would be a good idea to do a quantitative analysis of your microsphere in order to determine the iron to oxygen atomic ratio.
  • You asked for further experiments with controlled heating. Here's my suggestion: I'd cut off several pieces from the beams and put them in a muffle furnace. Then I'd heat them to a temperature of eg. 100°C and keep them at that temperature for a while (e.g. 30 min). Now you take one of the pieces out of the furnace and let it cool down, if necessary in vacuo or nitrogen atmosphere to avoid oxidation. This sample is then subjected to the analysis routine. The temperature of furnace is then raised in 100°C steps and procedure described above is repeated until the maximum temperature of the furnace is reached.
 
<Truther> Obviously you're part of the Elite, and They altered your data points! </Truther>

Seriously though, stellar work. I look forward to seeing more!
 
Says something about Truthers dedication to the Truth that they don't do the same thing themselves as a comparison to validate their claims.

Why bother? Harrit et al. already proved their foregone conclusion, they don't have to do any more work. :rolleyes:
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLyYv5Y2YSM&feature=youtube

It looks like truthers are commenting on yt.

They seem to be saying there was some form of contamination with the paint or the barrel ?

If this is the case, why would the paint or barrel be contaminated with thermite :confused:

How much did they pay you to put thermite in the barrel Dave :D I thought Robrob was joking ;)
 
In his desperate attempt to discredit Dave's experiment Ziggi Zugam misses the decisive point: the microspheres were produced at temperatures well below the melting point of iron/steel. Something that was not possible according to earlier statements of the TM. 9/11 Truth debunked once more.
 

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