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Bumper sticker. . .(shudder)

Your need to tell people that they are projecting.
Your need to tell people that they are delusional.
Your need to think that you are smarter than Kathy.

-Elliot

That's odd, because I'm pretty sure I was criticizing her prostelyzing(sp?). Frankly, I have no trouble with a person's faith or belief. However, when they start trying to cram it down my throat I'm going to look at what their motivations are. My post was my opinion on what Kathy's motivations are.
 
NO NO NO I agree that Christ's divinity must be accepted. But that is equivalent to *accepting* unconditional love. God *offers* unconditional love, but the kicker is *DO WE ACCEPT IT*?

No, the kicker is, people claim their god offers unconditional live, but *DO WE BELIEVE IT*?

God offered/offers (that's another debate) unconditional love to the damned in hell, but they didn't accept it.

When we say unconditional love of God, we don't mean God smothers us with it so it is *impossible* to reject it. Love is reciprocal. Let's say you have a 20 year old kid. You have unconditional love for that kid. The kid tells you that he hates you and will never see you again and disappears. You never see the kid again. You still have unconditional love for the kid. *But does the kid receive that unconditional love in any real way*? No. So it is with God. Whether or not we receive the unconditional love is dependent on entering into the relationship. But we may refuse the relationship, and that is manifested in refusing Christ's divinity.

-Elliot

A better analogy would be a 20-year-old kid who had never seen his father and only heard a lot of vague and conflicting stories from his siblings. When questioned, it turned out none of them had actually met their father either.

Apparently their father loved his children unconditionally and would welcome them in his house when they made the journey; all they needed to do was accept the possibly nonexistent father's love. But some children disagreed on how to communicate that acceptance. One said you just had to hold it in your heart and the father would know. Another said the proper way was to sacrifice a chicken every Tuesday. Another said the father always hated the family next door and we should torch their place. How's a boy to decide?
 
A better analogy would be a 20-year-old kid who had never seen his father and only heard a lot of vague and conflicting stories from his siblings. When questioned, it turned out none of them had actually met their father either.

Apparently their father loved his children unconditionally and would welcome them in his house when they made the journey; all they needed to do was accept the possibly nonexistent father's love. But some children disagreed on how to communicate that acceptance. One said you just had to hold it in your heart and the father would know. Another said the proper way was to sacrifice a chicken every Tuesday. Another said the father always hated the family next door and we should torch their place. How's a boy to decide?

Discernment. If you decide that the God doesn't exist, that's OK too. And if he does, and if he does offer unconditional love, check the excuses at the door.

-Elliot
 
Discernment. If you decide that the God doesn't exist, that's OK too. And if he does, and if he does offer unconditional love, check the excuses at the door.

-Elliot

Why would you need excuses if the love was unconditional? Belief in him would be a condition, would it not? A god that unconditionally loves his children loves the atheists and satanists too.
 
Discernment. If you decide that the God doesn't exist, that's OK too. And if he does, and if he does offer unconditional love, check the excuses at the door.

-Elliot

Sooo... God's cool with nonbelievers? And with believers of other religions, if they used their honest judgement to question their faith? And he won't be all "Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels"?
 
I like peanutbutter... And I don't think Elliot was being condescending at all. He was just expressing his opinion on the inane drivel I posted. Unlike me, he wasn't being an ass. Umm something else, but I forgot...

Oh yeah! Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles was based on a true story! Chuck Norris once at a turtle whole and when he crapped it out it was 6ft tall and had learned karate!

Now on with your regularly scheduled debate/conversation/politish semi-flame...
 
Yeah Kathy. Take that! You suck! Who cares about how you experience love and what makes you happy?

Come back when you can tell this forum that you experience love and are happy after kicking yer religion to the curb. Then you will be major and embraced, because that is real love.

But if you change your mind about that, and re-deconvert, then you will suck again.

But if you change your mind after that, and then re-un-deconvert, then you will *rule* again.

No, choice has *nothing* to do with this. It's the result. And no, the result is not chosen. It is obvious!

Why can't you see that you are wrong Kathy? Don't you understand that you are completely lost and crazy and don't know anything? WHY DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND KATHY, YOU ARE DRIVING US ALL BONKERS.

Just stop Kathy, nothing you feel or say or think means anything. You are just a person who is dumb. What we feel and say and think about love is meaningful because we are right. God, why don't you get it?

I really hope that when you are on your deathbed that you will recognize how stupid you've been. Because if you don't, then you will die thinking that you *actually did* experience and know love, when you didn't. And if that happens...well, I mean, ummm, it would be better if you died and thought like we did. Really. Don't you see? This is so obvious Kathy. You are so stupid.

-Elliot

WTF?

Elliot, I have to repeat what's been said: Have you been following this sick little saga?

Unlike people like Kittynh and Kelly, Kathy merely comes here to preach, preach, preach. She doesn't listen to word one, unless there's something she can glom onto and use in one of her "sermons."

She'd gain something resembling respect if she'd stick around and actually discuss what she believes, rather than drone on about it. She doesn't. Add to this that she's insulting to people on this board by suggesting that Fowlsound got cancer to "bring him closer to God," and that there was something benign in the misery that's fallen on other board members. Sorry, bro. Kathy's worn out her welcome.
 
Why would you need excuses if the love was unconditional? Belief in him would be a condition, would it not? A god that unconditionally loves his children loves the atheists and satanists too.
God loves everyone, but we all must repent if we want to be saved. And I don't know why talking about love should make anyone hostile. Love comes from God so if you have a love problem, I guess it's because you don't know Him. I on the other hand do so I will not quit sharing Jesus with others.

1 John 1:7... But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

My next bumper sticker idea,"Repent And Be Saved!"
 
God loves everyone, but we all must repent if we want to be saved. And I don't know why talking about love should make anyone hostile. Love comes from God so if you have a love problem, I guess it's because you don't know Him.
God is Viagra?


I on the other hand do so I will not quit sharing Jesus with others.
Methinks your generosity exceeds your good sense.


My next bumper sticker idea,"Repent And Be Saved!"
Let's see...

re·pent v. intr. 1. To feel remorse, contrition, or self-reproach for what one has done or failed to do; be contrite.

Hmm, perhaps you should do some repenting yourself for foisting that one on the world.

'Luthon64
 
Sooo... God's cool with nonbelievers? And with believers of other religions, if they used their honest judgement to question their faith? And he won't be all "Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels"?
God is cool because He can and does open the eyes of non-believers. Until you see that sin is real you will never come to terms with the need for a Savior.

Here's a link to a tract I found on line that I not only think is well written, but I kinda had it in my thoughts this last year. I am gald I found it and I will hand this one out to people because I think it tells it straight. The tract is called "Where will you spend eternity?" check it out...
http://shop2.gospelcom.net/epages/a...f1011b518b271e45579e7c06c1/Product/View/30391
 
God loves everyone, but we all must repent if we want to be saved.

So God's love is conditional. If we fail to meet the condition of repentance He will gladly toss us away like so much garbage.

As I've said before: for someone who's supposed to be Our Father, he's a lousy excuse for a parent.

Nothing my daughter could do could ever make me want to punish her forever, and my love for her should be so much less than God's love for His creation. So why is it God finds it so easy to dump His children into Hell?

I've asked kathy this before & she's never seen fit to answer, but I'll try it again. . .
 
God is cool because He can and does open the eyes of non-believers. Until you see that sin is real you will never come to terms with the need for a Savior.

Here's a link to a tract I found on line that I not only think is well written, but I kinda had it in my thoughts this last year. I am gald I found it and I will hand this one out to people because I think it tells it straight. The tract is called "Where will you spend eternity?" check it out...
http://shop2.gospelcom.net/epages/atsdirect.storefront/44bfb1f1011b518b271e45579e7c06c1/Product/View/30391

kathy, here is a link to a tract you need to read. It's written by a man named Dan Barker who used to be an Evangelical minister but his now an atheist. He tells it straight about why he lost faith in faith. Check it out... http://www.ffrf.org/books/lfif/?t=lostfaith
 
God is cool because He can and does open the eyes of non-believers.

Can't help noticing you completely misunderstood my question. I guess your answer is no: apparently God isn't cool with unbelievers because you believe he has to change us. He can't just let us be.

In any case, it's not true. God hasn't "opened my eyes." When can I expect him to work his mind-control magic? Today? Tomorrow? On my death-bed? After I die?

Until you see that sin is real you will never come to terms with the need for a Savior.

Sure. And until you see that thetans are real, you will never come to terms with the need for Scientology. Until you see that the world is Maya, you will never come to terms with the need to seek Nirvana.

It's all somebody else's belief. Just like the dreck you're parroting.

Here's a link to a tract I found on line

Yes, yes, I've read lots of tracts, Kathy. I've got a little collection of them, in fact. They haven't opened my eyes.
 
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Until you see that sin is real you will never come to terms with the need for a Savior.

Kathy, you keep using the phrase "sin is real". Exactly what is the point of that? Is that as opposed to "Sin is fake" or "Sin is imaginary", or even "Sin is integer". Have you even thought about it, or is it some drivel crammed down your throat by some preacher?

Sins are nothing more than things religions make up to justify their existence. The point of most sects is to claim "You are a sinner because you do xxxx, and the only way to be saved is to follow our magic instruction book.".

Religions have to keep convincing their suckers that sin is real and some magical being can see them when they sin and read their thoughts when they commit sins in their minds. They have to keep pounding it into the heads of the flock or they will lose their hold on them. What good is a new religion if it doesn't offer a way to save your eternal soul? Why would anybody choose a new religion if it doesn't offer a "New and Improved!" way to salvation? This was the whole point of John in writing Revelations. He must have thought "Nobody is joining our cult, what we need is a New and Improved way to get to heaven. I think I'll tell everybody that you don't have to follow the old laws anymore. That'll get me some followers."

The result of all of this is guilt. People can't live within the ridiculous prohibitions of any religion, so they are made to feel as if they are inadequate or that they are failures. This is very similar to the self esteem issues that children of abusive parents or victims of abusive spouses develop. "If only I were a better kid, my mom wouldn't scream at me and call me stupid." or "If I were prettier/a better cook/a better wife, I wouldn't make my husband angry and he wouldn't hit me." You transfer the guilt from the mean parent/abusive spouse/vengeful deity onto the victim.

Religion is one of the greatest evils that exists. The greatest proof I can offer that there isn't a god is that if there was, he would smite all of the preachers and self-righteous religious nuts to the deepest, hottest recesses of hell the first chance he got. That would make the world a better place. You people are responsible for almost all of the bad things in the world. Wars. Unrest in the Middle East. Hatred of homosexuals. Bombings at abortion clinics. Oppression of non-believers. All of it in the name of religion, and none of them are any better than the others. In my eyes you people are as bad as the radical Muslims, maybe worse.

Steven Weinberg, Nobel Laureate in physics says it best:

"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."

The only real sin that I know of is religion.



I'm certain you won't respond to this. Certainly not in a meaningful manner. You will do one of the following:

A) Disappear for a few weeks then come back and ignore it.
B) Make some tangential comment about a trivial part of the post, and recommend reading some idiotic book by some fringe preacher who makes his living peddling books to desperate people looking for something to grab onto.
C) Make a personal attack that has very little to do with this post, then change course by pretending that I said something I didn't. (Like the time I said you were self-righteous and you changed in mid paragraph from god warning us not to be self-righteous to claiming that we should all be righteous)

My guess is A.
 
God loves everyone, but we all must repent if we want to be saved. And I don't know why talking about love should make anyone hostile. Love comes from God so if you have a love problem, I guess it's because you don't know Him. I on the other hand do so I will not quit sharing Jesus with others.

KK point #1.

1 John 1:7... But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

KK point #2.
 
God is cool because He can and does open the eyes of non-believers. Until you see that sin is real you will never come to terms with the need for a Savior.

Here's a link to a tract I found on line that I not only think is well written, but I kinda had it in my thoughts this last year. I am gald I found it and I will hand this one out to people because I think it tells it straight. The tract is called "Where will you spend eternity?" check it out...
http://shop2.gospelcom.net/epages/a...f1011b518b271e45579e7c06c1/Product/View/30391

KK point #3.
 
Until you see that sin is real you will never come to terms with the need for a Savior.

What constitutes sin?

And I don't know why talking about love should make anyone hostile. Love comes from God so if you have a love problem, I guess it's because you don't know Him.

The reason it makes anyone hostile is because you say stupid crap like "Love comes from God". To which I reply no it doesn't. The love of my children does not come from god, it comes from them. I don't have any love "problem" and I don't want to know "him" because he is a spiteful ass, much like myself really... so maybe I AM GOD!!!!
 
What constitutes sin?



The reason it makes anyone hostile is because you say stupid crap like "Love comes from God". To which I reply no it doesn't. The love of my children does not come from god, it comes from them. I don't have any love "problem" and I don't want to know "him" because he is a spiteful ass, much like myself really... so maybe I AM GOD!!!!
The Bible spells it out in black and white what sin is. I'll find it on Biblegateway and post it again shortly.

And just because you don't acknowlege love comes from God, doesn't proove it doesn't. Once I came to faith I realized everything was a gift from him. I guess we have to have faith before we even can develop an attitude of gratitude. Heck even the bad can be used to work for good when you have faith. I know sometimes life is hard and people can get angry with God when things aren't the way we planned or want them, but he is merciful if you see him in the right light.

1 John 4:7-8 tells us God Is Love
Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love.
 
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