Bullycide

[3point14]

Sure, when we get to Utopia, I will change my tune. Of course, violent behavior is counter-productive to civilization. Doesn't stop it from happening.

No. It does stop us for accepting it. Tacitly or otherwise.

 

[Varanid]

Accepted, with the exception of the bolded bit, which I believe is absolute tripe. Sorry.

Make no mistake, I am not going to come in here spouting woo-martial art-chi-blah blah. Having said that, it is entirely true. That is part of the main thrust of many Martial Arts, overcoming physical disadvantages.

For that matter, size is often used against an opponent. As a general rule, flexibility decreases with size, which allows for some serious ass-kickiness if one is properly trained.

*kia!*
(I just broke a cement block with my forehead- no seriously, I did.)

 

[3point14]

Make no mistake, I am not going to come in here spouting woo-martial art-chi-blah blah. Having said that, it is entirely true. That is part of the main thrust of many Martial Arts, overcoming physical disadvantages.

For that matter, size is often used against an opponent. As a general rule, flexibility decreases with size, which allows for some serious ass-kickiness if one is properly trained.

*kia!*
(I just broke a cement block with my forehead- no seriously, I did.)

No, still not true.

I have a level of training in this regard. (Can't imagine what made me go out and get that...) and the fact remains, as a wise man once said, a good biggun will always beat a good littlun. They very carefully grade any martial contest by weight. There's a very good reason for that.

The rest is bullshido of the highest order.

 

[Modified]

Make no mistake, I am not going to come in here spouting woo-martial art-chi-blah blah. Having said that, it is entirely true.

The original comment was about someone twice the body weight of the victim. I'm in reasonably good shape, but I've never trained in any sort of fighting. I like my chances against an 80 lb person, no matter how well trained.

 

[Varanid]

Well fellas, I don't know what to say. I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one. I am sticking to my guns though.

One with proper training will have caused severe damage before an untrained combatant has even figured out the fight is going on. Doesn't matter how big you are. A crushed larnyx, broken knee, or properly smashed nose will drop someone regardless of their size, and it doesn't take much force to do any of these things. The trick is being able to do them quickly, and avoiding counter measures in the process. Untrained folks are just out of their league.

I am also not talking about some dufus with a "buy-a-blackbelt", I am talking about someone who is legitimately trained.

And the comment about Martial Artist matches being divided by weight classes:
Well duh, they are both trained. That is the whole point. A trained big guy, will have an advantage over an equally trained little guy.

 

[3point14]

Well fellas, I don't know what to say. I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one. I am sticking to my guns though.

One with proper training will have caused severe damage before an untrained combatant has even figured out the fight is going on. Doesn't matter how big you are. A crushed larnyx, broken knee, or properly smashed nose will drop someone regardless of their size, and it doesn't take much force to do any of these things. The trick is being able to do them quickly, and avoiding counter measures in the process. Untrained folks are just out of their league.

I am also not talking about some dufus with a "buy-a-blackbelt", I am talking about someone who is legitimately trained.

And the comment about Martial Artist matches being divided by weight classes:
Well duh, they are both trained. That is the whole point. A trained big guy, will have an advantage over an equally trained little guy.

You make the mistake of assuming that the bigger kid has no training.

Make the mistake of assuming that your opponent has no training in any fight and you will regret it. Make that mistake when the guy is twice your size and, if it's serious enough, you're probably dead.

 

[Mister Earl]

I will go ahead and reinterate that winning the fight isn't necessary. I lost the vast majority of mine. The point is they learn that you're no longer a free and easy target, and turn their attention elsewhere.

 

[3point14]

I will go ahead and reinterate that winning the fight isn't necessary. I lost the vast majority of mine. The point is they learn that you're no longer a free and easy target, and turn their attention elsewhere.

Not when your resistance is about as useful as a waterpistol at a gunfight.

And, to be honest, this is all redundant. A child in the care of adults should, on no account, have to go through any of that to have a quiet life. That is the responsibility of the adults into whose care the child has been placed. As far as I can see the adults fail the children time and time again.

No child should have to prove they're not an 'easy target' in a civilised world. Children are required to go to school. They should not be required to learn to fight to stop others bullying them. It's not their job. Any rhetoric about making yourself less of a target just means that some other kid is getting it. Anything other than a complete condemnation of the situation shows a callous disregard for the welfare of children other people.

 

[CplFerro]

Well, the term makes no sense.

Bullycide should mean killing of a bully (like patricide means killing of one's father).

Suicide by bully would be a more correct term (like suicide by cop).

Dear imagineaa,

"Suicide by cop" means an individual who seeks to die by confronting a police officer. "Suicide by bully" would therefore mean an individual who seeks to die by confronting a bully. Is this what you mean?

Yours,

Cpl Ferro

 

[shandyjan]

Dear Mr. Purple,

All you're noting is that it is to women's advantage to fight dirty online by playing the discrimination card. And that makes them better armed in this virtual environment.

Yours,

Cpl Ferro

And that is an example of why women are leaving this site. Too many bullies chest beating bozos

 

[Mister Earl]

Not when your resistance is about as useful as a waterpistol at a gunfight.

I respectfully disagree, in most cases. Resistance I'd found is usually enough, quality of resistance didn't seem to factor much. But I can imagine circumstances where this wouldn't be feasible at all, like a wheelchair bound child, or various other physical maladies.

And, to be honest, this is all redundant. A child in the care of adults should, on no account, have to go through any of that to have a quiet life. That is the responsibility of the adults into whose care the child has been placed. As far as I can see the adults fail the children time and time again.

I agree. The hard part is that is an ideal world scenario, and not a real world one. At no point throughout the six years or so I was bullied did I get any kind of reliable protection from adults. None. I didn't see it as feasible then, and I can't now.

No child should have to prove they're not an 'easy target' in a civilised world. Children are required to go to school. They should not be required to learn to fight to stop others bullying them. It's not their job. Any rhetoric about making yourself less of a target just means that some other kid is getting it. Anything other than a complete condemnation of the situation shows a callous disregard for the welfare of children other people.

I agree. But again, this is arguing under the perfect world scenario. None of what I have suggested should be necessary. But it is by necessity. In my situation I had no other options. No matter how hard you wish for something to be true, that isn't enough to make it spring into being. Kids get bullied. Kids will continue to get bullied. The problem has to be addressed. Speaking as the bully target, I can only recommend what I have already under the present conditions.

 

[3point14]

I respectfully disagree, in most cases. Resistance I'd found is usually enough, quality of resistance didn't seem to factor much. But I can imagine circumstances where this wouldn't be feasible at all, like a wheelchair bound child, or various other physical maladies.



I agree. The hard part is that is an ideal world scenario, and not a real world one. At no point throughout the six years or so I was bullied did I get any kind of reliable protection from adults. None. I didn't see it as feasible then, and I can't now.



I agree. But again, this is arguing under the perfect world scenario. None of what I have suggested should be necessary. But it is by necessity. In my situation I had no other options. No matter how hard you wish for something to be true, that isn't enough to make it spring into being. Kids get bullied. Kids will continue to get bullied. The problem has to be addressed. Speaking as the bully target, I can only recommend what I have already under the present conditions.

I do see your points. I really do. And it's something I feel quite passionately about, so perhaps I don't think too clearly. And you're right, you do what you can.

But your complete acceptance that there is nothing that can be done about it is what galls me. Just because it's not a perfect world, it doesn't mean we can't strive to make it so. You seem to accept the status quo as unchangable, and this is what annoys me somewhat. As someone pointed out above, if it were adults there would be a prosecution. I believe that there are ways that things can change. I believe that teachers turn a blind eye to something that makes many, many children very, very miserable every year. I believe they should be encouraged not to, rather than to seek the quiet life, which often seems to be policy.

My apologies if I've been somewhat rabid - this sort of thing gets to me.

And now I'm off to bed. It is very late.

 

[CplFerro]

And that is an example of why women are leaving this site. Too many bullies chest beating bozos

Dear shandyjan,

I've been here for years preaching truthfulness and I have yet to find a woman with enough brains and sense to grasp any of it more than any of the men, so, in terms of actual worth of conversation I'd say women and men jreffies are about par.

Derail derailed.

Yours,

Cpl Ferro

 

[Mister Earl]

I do see your points. I really do. And it's something I feel quite passionately about, so perhaps I don't think too clearly. And you're right, you do what you can.

But your complete acceptance that there is nothing that can be done about it is what galls me. Just because it's not a perfect world, it doesn't mean we can't strive to make it so. You seem to accept the status quo as unchangable, and this is what annoys me somewhat. As someone pointed out above, if it were adults there would be a prosecution. I believe that there are ways that things can change. I believe that teachers turn a blind eye to something that makes many, many children very, very miserable every year. I believe they should be encouraged not to, rather than to seek the quiet life, which often seems to be policy.

My apologies if I've been somewhat rabid - this sort of thing gets to me.

And now I'm off to bed. It is very late.

Not a problem. No, I don't see the situation as unchangeable. I will say that I don't think anyone has a good idea on how to change things. That would require either a massive amount of guards to be hired to roam all of each schools' territory (which does nothing not around schools, bullying happens off campus, too), or some kind of drastic overhaul to the child rearing process, which I don't realistically see has happening. There may be a solution out there, but I can't see it.

 

[pipelineaudio]

As someone who was bullied ( when your a bisexual , punk rock, actor in a small town, kinda hard to get by. Not to mention that until about grade 11 or so i was pushing 300 pounds. ) as a kid the only advice i can give is advice that people today don't want to hear.

Fight, and fight dirty.

No one is around there friends 24/7, and no one has eyes in the back of their head. Your going to take some beatings, and your going to get into trouble, but after a few goes, and a few heads bounced off urinals, you present a risk, and simply out of a want for a lack of hassle you will be left more alone.

And fighting dirty doesn't mean, bring a knife, it doesn't mean beat someones skull to a pulp. Property damage was the motto of the punk group in my area. Someone harassing you in a car? Well, your a kid, more than likely it is their parents car, and more than likely they picked a spot where no one was around. There are many ways to shatter a windshield that can be carried around with a person. Touch up paint can be used to make a point to someone if you don't want to throw a punch, an open bottle quickly turns a pair of 200 dollar shoes into modern art. Eventually the parents are going to wonder why this keeps happening. And while you don't have power, they certainly do.

There is another option, to simply take the crap. If you don't want to deal with the blowback, and you don't want to deal with the trouble that you will get into, simply get by, high school isn't forever.

Personally, i would suggest a mixture of the two, be unpredictable. What i always did, and i came out of my teenage years with a minimum of scars, emotional or otherwise.

This whole " Defeat hate with love." mantra, is doing nothing more than taking the power the victims have away. Sure, we would all love to live in a world without violence, or retribution, but utopia is for Utopians. And , especially in high school, no one is a Utopian.

I agree very much with this. I learned also in life, that if it starts costing the parents of the bully money, the "there's no way to stop it" all of a sudden gets stopped.

Regarding the thread though, physical bullying is a WHOLE different animal. No body can cause you physical hard thru your phone or pc screen. That all comes to choices you make about how you deal with the information you are presented. Emotionally, it might suck just as bad as getting hit, but in reality, one is entirely in your hands and another is entirely in someone else's hands

 

[fuelair]

I think bullying needs to stop. Or at least be minimized.

However, I don´t think that educating anyone is going to be much help. This isn´t about people not knowing something. This is about people looking the other way, intentionally, either because they don´t care or because they, too, are afraid of the bully.

And bullies don´t speak "educate", either. They only speak "brute force". I have stopped people from bullying me twice. Both times was through use of brute force, i.e. a punch in the face. That wasn´t terribly nice, but I don´t regret it, and if I was in the situation again, and thought it would work, I would do it any moment.

I have stopped three + bullies/moral equivalent in my life - and barely had to use any real force - but I have seen too many who can't do that (when you are some overweight and like to read, sometimes people make very bad assumptions about your readiness and ability to cause them pain or worse) so I am afraid I am not comfortable with the blame the victim thing.

A lot of people have unfortunately been trained by parents, religion, school to not be forceful in their own defense or, way worse to me, to turn the other cheek, many bullies are both large and agressive (two of mine fit that) and others fear them. I do not go for blame the victim - nor do I go for the victim is the one who has to handle it (though I am 100% with them if they do). If society is willing to turn a blind eye to bullying, society has a bigger problem than the victim does.

By the by, when I read the thread title, I assumed a rash of bullies killing themselves. I was ready for happy news like that!!!!!

 

[Chaos]

Come down like a ton of bricks on the kids that do it and make their lives as miserable as you can within the confines of the law.

Seriously.

For some years after I left school I would have advocated, to any bullied kid, hiding behind a tree with a big stick and making a serious mess of the bullies kneecaps with said stick. A reputation as a total nutter will scare off most, I would have thought.

Yes, I realise that's unacceptable now, but I was miserable for five years of my life and shortly after that I had a difficult time thinking of it rationally.

I agree. Actually, I´d go even further. **** the confines of the law, if that´s what it takes. Bullying isn´t the most lawful behavior, either, and if there is no lawful recourse, **** the law when defending yourself.

According to some, as far as I can tell, I deserved it because I was small and sensitive and not quite the same as everyone else. That comment is one of the craziest I've read here (and it has some competition). I rather hope I@ve misinterpreted it.

I rather doubt you misinterpreted this. There are some sorry excuses for human-shaped garbage around who will always blame the victim.

 

[Flo]

On a certain level, it's not nearly as complicated as people make it out to be.

Imagine I were to go up to one of my coworkers, push him around, and threaten him with great physical harm if he does not give me the money in his wallet. What is the proper response?

There may be some disagreement on just how far this coworkers retaliation (if any at all) would be justified. However, most everyone would agree that in this scenario, the aggressor needs to go to jail for assault and robbery, and he should be fired. It's obvious. You don't even need to give it a second thought.

Now, let's suppose an identical scenario takes place, except this time we're replacing adult coworkers with adolescent schoolmates. At this point, many people are confounded at the proper response. But why? Shouldn't the aggressor still go to jail (or some form specialized discipline), and shouldn't he still be removed from the environment he has damaged? Instead, many will argue that it is predominantly the role of the victim to rectify the situation. This is, of course, absurd. Why should we expect children, who are naturally so ill-equipped at handling life's problems on their own, to solve this one alone, and not have at their disposal the same tools that are available to our coworkers from before? That's the way adults do it. You know, in the real world?

That's the easy part. It's plainly obvious how backwards and compartmentalized our culture's attitude is towards the bullying problem. Naturally, you may be wondering how we change this attitude. For that question, however, I have no answers.

^^^ This.

In addition, everybody here agrees it is wrong to pick on homosexuals, to psychologically harrass people at the workplace, etc. But all of a sudden, it should be brushed off when it concerns children/teenagers at school or on the internet ?

 

[Darat]

The physical aspects of bullying, the pushing and shoving and the like, are only a small element of bullying and I suspect most bullying between children is not of this type once they've reached high-school age. And I'm sorry but the bravado of those tales about standing up to "the bully" is misplaced, all it shows is that if you can physically intimidate someone, in other words bully them then they will leave you alone. Which given how our societies work is a terrible lesson to learn going into adulthood since such behaviour in adulthood is not only frowned upon but is often illegal.

It has taken us a long time (in the UK at least) to reach a point where we are seeing bullying for the very serious problem it is and I am hopeful that we will learn how to deal with it better than previous generations.

I do have a slight only concern that some folk dilute the meaning of bullying so much that it means "kids not getting on with one another" - that is not bullying. Obviously kids have to understand that they don't like everyone, that they will not be liked by everyone and that you are often thrown into situations that you have to deal with people you don't like; the lesson they need to learn from that is how to get along with people that they don't like.

 

[Darat]

I honestly think corporal punishment should be brought back for bullies. They don't respond to reason, and the only success I ever had dealing with bullies was to use physical violence. So beat them. Beat them hard in front of the whole school. Make it clear this will happen every time.

Which is I'm afraid only bullying in itself and as I said above is not behaviour that is acceptable in adulthood so why should we teach children to behave in a way that will (potentially) get them into serious trouble as adults?