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Bullish on Bernie: The Bernie Sanders 2016 Thread

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Axiom_Blade said:
Well, it's obvious that there's no point in arguing with you further. I find it funny that you think I should be guilty for my vote when you directly support the people who are destroying the country's economy and committing war crimes.



What nonsense. I benefit from the ACA. Of course I care if Republicans take away my healthcare.



I'm not talking about individual concerns. I guess I should've used "our" instead of "your".



It absolutely does. That's my point.



If it is democratic, then I can vote for whoever I want, and Tony Stark's argument is completely invalid.



Yeah. I frankly don't buy into the Democratic Party's fear-mongering. W. Bush was president for 8 years. The world did not end. Yes, some bad things happened, but guess what? A lot of those, like the Iraq War, the Democrats supported. Then they'll turn around and tell me I should feel guilty for the Iraq War when they directly supported it. Completely shameless and hypocritical.

Both parties are so scared of Trump right now that they're unabashedly comparing him to Hitler. Yes, Hitler! If Sanders was winning, we'd be hearing about how he's the second coming of Stalin. It's nonsense.
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You can vote for whoever you want to. I can state the fact that your vote is irrational and counterproductive. That the only thing that people that vote like you could conceivably "accomplish" is helping to put Trump/Cruz into the White House and that you will only have yourselves to blame if the GOP finally succeeds in taking away your healthcare.
 
Trakar said:
Effective at what? selecting the winner? Isn't the goal to select the candidate you think would be the best candidate? ...
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Trakar said:
The only responsibility the voter has is to vote for his best interest as he sees and understands it, consistently and chronically.
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I don't suppose you see the contradiction there?
The best candidate who cannot win is not always in your best interest to vote for.
 
luchog said:
The problem with American politics right now is that it has become mired in a particular mode of thinking, a mode of thinking rooted in fear and complacency, and it is very difficult to break out of that mode.

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The political process is an integral part of the social and cultural nature of society. Maybe it's just your sentence structure.

The problem with the American public right now is that it has become mired in a particular mode of thinking, a mode of thinking rooted in fear and complacency, and it is very difficult to break out of that mode.​

This is the nature of society. Change short of a revolution is slow and incremental. Sanders has been working tirelessly within Congress since 1990. While running for POTUS might make sense in terms of broadening his impact, change needs to happen from the bottom up, in the Congress and the state legislators.
 
Manopolus said:
Affecting. Your target noun is an object affected, not an effect produced.

...unless you mean governance rather than government, which effects (results in) a different meaning than the one assumed.

[/pedant]

Sorry. I couldn't help myself.
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I'd say that "effecting government" would be OK by my British usage as effecting the process of government. I'd say that "governance" has different connotations to me - more to do with controls and checks and balances.
 
dudalb said:
I am puzzled why Anybody on the Political Left would be a de facto supporter of Trump.
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I think it's a council of despair and cynicism, "they're all the same, so it doesn't matter... what has Obama done for me?"

The last two presidents should show that this isn't the case - one enacted the patriot act, the other the ACA.
 
Do Bernie supporters really believe that he is going to start winning states by around 20% margins from here on out?

Even after getting swept in popular voting in five disparate states on the Ides of March?
 
Axiom_Blade said:
Both parties are so scared of Trump right now that they're unabashedly comparing him to Hitler. Yes, Hitler! If Sanders was winning, we'd be hearing about how he's the second coming of Stalin. It's nonsense.
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If someone asks a candidate, "how do your stated policies towards Muslims differ from those of the Nazis before WWII?" I'd think that "you tell me" is not an answer that I'd want to hear.
 
dudalb said:
I am puzzled why Anybody on the Political Left would be a de facto supporter of Trump.
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Most wouldn't. As I mentioned before, however, there are people that support Bernie that aren't so dedicated to a left/right ideology as they are to a sense of rebellion against the status quo. There will be crossover. The only question is how much. There will be some that will not only fail to support Hillary, but will actively support (vote for) Trump.

That's the nature of populism. It's on a different spectrum than left/right or even Authoritarian/Libertarian. It can basically be defined as "freaking do something about everything being screwed up" vs "everything's fine, let's keep going on like normal."
 
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Manopolus said:
Most wouldn't. As I mentioned before, however, there are people that support Bernie that aren't so dedicated to a left/right ideology as they are to a sense of rebellion against the status quo. There will be crossover. The only question is how much. There will be some that will not only fail to support Hillary, but will actively support (vote for) Trump.

That's the nature of populism. It's on a different spectrum than left/right or even Authoritarian/Libertarian. It can basically be defined as "freaking do something about everything being screwed up" vs "everything's fine, let's keep going on like normal."
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I hope that most voters will realize that a vote for Trump, while "freaking do(ing) something about everything being screwed up", is actually only making everything far more screwed up.
 
jimbob said:
I think it's a council of despair and cynicism, "they're all the same, so it doesn't matter... what has Obama done for me?"

The last two presidents should show that this isn't the case - one enacted the patriot act, the other the ACA.
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I also think there is a certain amount of "The quicker we have Fascism the quicker we have the Revolution" thinking involved here.
 
In the end, though, the number of Bernie supporters who refuse to vote for Hilary is going to be small,the closer the possibility of a Trump presidency gets. I think if he actually gets the nomination,a lot "I will NEVER vote for Hilary" voters will change their minds.
 
d4m10n said:
Do Bernie supporters really believe that he is going to start winning states by around 20% margins from here on out?

Even after getting swept in popular voting in five disparate states on the Ides of March?
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After tomorrows vote, Berned-Out Sanders will fall even further behind. So the new narrative will become that "he is going to start winning states by around 30% margins from here on out."

This will continue until the bitter end when he'll need 100% margins.

On the Republican side, John Kasich needs 102% of the remaining delegates to cinch the nomination.
 
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Slings and Arrows said:
After tomorrow's election, Berned-Out Sanders will fall even further behind. So the new narrative will become that "he is going to start winning states by around 30% margins from here on out."

This will continue until the bitter end when he'll need 100% margins.

On the Republican side, John Kasich needs 102% of the remaining delegates to cinch the nomination.
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He just won the Democrats abroad vote by a margin of 69% to 31%. Let's not make assumptions until we see the results, particularly with a major campaign event including the 5 remaining candidates happening tonight. We'll finally see opposing parties' candidates in one forum, although it won't be in a debate format per se.

It's pretty obvious that every major poll excluding people that didn't vote in 2012 skews them towards Clinton, so don't bother giving me polling nonsense. The most meaningful measure of who will win is how many people show up. If it's a significant number more than usual, it will tend to be a Sanders win.
 
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I think this is what is called "cluthing at Straws".
Bernie is not going to win the nomination.
Overseas Democrats always tilt much more heavily to the left then the party as a whole.
 
Manopolus said:
He just won the Democrats abroad vote by a margin of 69% to 31%. Let's not make assumptions until we see the results, particularly with a major campaign event including the 5 remaining candidates happening tonight. We'll finally see opposing parties' candidates in one forum, although it won't be in a debate format per se.

It's pretty obvious that every major poll excluding people that didn't vote in 2012 skews them towards Clinton, so don't bother giving me polling nonsense. The most meaningful measure of who will win is how many people show up. If it's a significant number more than usual, it will tend to be a Sanders win.
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By an average of 16 points from here on out? Come on. It is not going to happen.
 
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