Brown murder conspiracy split from Bush v Clinton Impeachment

Could someone give me a quick recap as to the reason why Brown was killed by this supposed conspiracy?

I can't but help think that trying to kill him by aircraft crash is a rather expensive, complicated, and very public way of doing it. Why not slip him a drug to cause a heart attack or use some other much more low-key method?
 
ROTFLOL! This reasoning, folks, demonstrates just how desperate certain people are that the Ron Brown crash not be looked at closely.

Tell me, why did they do autopsies on certain individuals in the crash if the way they died was irrelevant to the AIB? Why did they include that information in the AIB report if it was irrelevant?

Well the AIB would insist the pilot(s) would recieve an autopsy because things like drugs, a brain tumor, or a heart attack might affect the pilot(s) ability to fly. Provide your evidence that Brown was flying, and therefore required an autopsy. Because that is the only reason an AIB would have been interested in giving his body an autopsy.



One of the prime reasons for conducting AIB's is to produce a document that can be used in lawsuits regarding the matter.

Civil wrongful death or property damage lawsuits are not the same thing as murder investigations and trials. No prosecutor would use an AIB as his or her primary evidence in a murder trial.

So tell me ... why didn't THEY call the FBI?

Provide proof that they didn't. I won't speculate until you do.




Do I detect a hint of desperation? :D

Close but no cigar.

Frustration.
 
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I can see why you expressed concern that your behavior in the Ron Brown case not be mentioned in other discussions. :D
me] Now, I will confine my contempt for you and confine it to this matter. On all other matters I will be neutral to you, unless you show me other reason to do otherwise. No need to drag any shrapnel from this to another topic.
I see you still have trouble with reading comprehension. I offer to you a free passage in any other thread, any you respond with a falsehood.

Noted.

DR
 
The issue isn't whether autopsies were done ... some clearly were ... but whether Ron Brown specifically was autopsied. There comes a point in every Ron Brown thread where the feebleness of the arguments from the side which claims nothing suspicious happened grows exponentially. But you, sir, are exceeding all expectations by insisting Brown was autopsied and using beachnut, who has offered NOTHING material in the way to prove that, as your reason for believing that. In your case, about all I can do is laugh.

Apparently you missed the point of what I said (maybe you were too busy arrogantly calling my argument feeble and laughing). The point is why was Brown the only one with a “gunshot wound”? There were 33 other passengers, why haven’t any other supposed bullet holes been found on them? Why would one be shot and not anyone else?

You ignored everything I posted, including Associated Press reports, press statements from AFIP and submittals to a court of law which all indicate no autopsy. It's shocking to see such Twoofer mentality alive and well in the camp that argues for rationality on this forum. ROTFLOL!

Ignored everything you posted? I showed that you were validating Ruddy’s articles because a Ruddy Web site had put them on the site, which didn’t help your credibility.

What you don’t have is any evidence that Brown or any one else died of a gunshot. Or anything else suspicious happened as others have already debunked them.

How is that World Net Daily article relevant? It doesn’t make the Trib a credible paper. It doesn’t provide any evidence to support the claims that it is a bullet hole, as opposed to a piece of the plane. Until you have evidence all you have is an argument from the authority of those pathologists.
 
Could someone give me a quick recap as to the reason why Brown was killed by this supposed conspiracy?

I can't but help think that trying to kill him by aircraft crash is a rather expensive, complicated, and very public way of doing it. Why not slip him a drug to cause a heart attack or use some other much more low-key method?


In short, Brown was about to be indicted on very serious corruption charges, and the Clintons feared that he would provide evidence of their own wrongdoing in exchange for leniency.
 
In short, Brown was about to be indicted on very serious corruption charges, and the Clintons feared that he would provide evidence of their own wrongdoing in exchange for leniency.
Same reason they murdered Vince Foster... well, except Ron wasn't sleeping with Hil at the time. :D
 
Nobody else had a head wound. Seems kind of far-fetched that only Ron Brown would have such an injury given all that metal you folks claim was flying around during the crash ...

There are a lot of ways to be injured in a plane crash. If someone else received an injury that nobody else happened to get, would that be proof there was a conspiracy against that guy?

I repeat though--how likely do you think it is that only the target of the assassination survived?
 
Someone else said it, and I'd like to repeat it.

Was nobody else shot? Seems kind of far-fetched that the seekrit assassination squad that made it to the plane first to take out Brown, found that miraculously he was the only one to survive the crash...

Then in another miracle they shoot him in the head with a bullet that caused no exit wound because a freak ricochet sent it down to his pelvis or something.

That was a lucky ricochet for them, because apparently they killed three dozen people just to whack one person and make it look like an accident, and it would have entirely defeated the purpose to leave Brown with an obvious bullet wound.
 
But, they controlled the investigation!!! Apparently not well, though, because they were found out. Good for us none of them realized those pesky pathologists might speak out!

It would have worked too, if it weren't for all those people looking at bodies and x-rays and plane parts. How could such a brilliant plan backfire?
 
BeAChooser - Now if you care to quote a pathologist in this case, I'll be happy to listen. But so far, I seem to be the only one doing that.

Ex military, have fired high power automatic rifles and large bore rifles, have seen head shots and body shots on dead and injured.

There you go again, putting your own claimed expertise ahead of real experts on this topic ... the military forensic pathologists who where considered the best in the Air Force at the time. Don't you have a pathologist you can quote? Can't you even find ONE? :)

Quote:
If you don't even know that, perhaps you should try and find out. I've provided plenty of links through which you could do that.

You dont seem too interested showing me? Why not?

Perhaps because your tone made me think you weren't really serious about wanting to know the facts. But I tell you what, since I noticed that newsmax has moved it's Ron Brown collection of material to archives (which is why my links to newsmax weren't working), here's are new links to the x-rays of Brown's head that you can use to figure out where the wound was located. Hint: it's on top.

http://archive.newsmax.com/images/ronbrown/Photo_2.jpg

http://archive.newsmax.com/images/ronbrown/Photo_1.jpg

Is that what you are claiming, he searched around the crash site?

I'm not claiming it. It's what he's quoted saying he did.

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No, I think I'll not waste my time with you. You can look for the one already posted on this thread, as well as the material that shows where the head wound was located.

The one I seen was not a timeline that was succinct, it was all over the place. I want it in your own words exactly what you think happened.

Well I beg to differ. I think the one I posted on this thread, which was in my own words btw, was quite succinct.

What you have posted does not answer some of my questions.

Which are? Go ahead, list them.

This helps me sometimes when I see people posting stuff about things that are incorrect. Like nothing on the aircraft could have caused that wound? Incorrect.

I didn't say nothing on the plane could have caused the wound. I said Cogswell found nothing at the crash site that in his expert opinion could have caused that particular wound.

ETA I cannot access any of BAC links to look at photos or any other info in them

Well it seems that newsmax has moved everything to their archive so the newsmax links to articles that I posted through the thread are not working. Sorry about that, folks.

Here are new links for each article I listed in post #41:

"Experts Differ on Ron Brown's Head Wound" By Christopher Ruddy, FOR THE PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE-REVIEW, December 3, 1997 http://archive.newsmax.com/articles/?a=1997/12/03/35938

"Second Expert: Brown's Wound Appeared to be From Gunshot" By Christopher Ruddy, FOR THE PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE-REVIEW, December 9, 1997 http://archive.newsmax.com/articles/?a=1997/12/09/34206

"Wecht: Autopsy Needed in Brown Case" by Christopher Ruddy, FOR THE PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE-REVIEW, December 17, 1997 http://archive.newsmax.com/articles/?a=1997/12/17/32921

"Pathologists Dispute Claims in Brown Probe" by Christopher Ruddy, FOR THE PITTSBURGE TRIBUNE-REVIEW, January 11, 1998 http://archive.newsmax.com/articles/?a=1998/1/11/32000

"Fourth Expert Claims Probe of Brown's Death Botched" by Christopher Ruddy, FOR THE PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE-REVIEW, January 13, 1998 http://archive.newsmax.com/articles/?a=1998/1/13/173306

"Kathleen Janoski Describes Cover-Up in Ron Brown Investigation" By Carl of Oyster Bay, FOR THE WASHINGTON WEEKLY, April 26, 1998 http://archive.newsmax.com/articles/?a=1998/4/26/01704

You can find other articles on Brown at Newsmax here: http://archive.newsmax.com/hottopics/Ron_Brown.shtml .

All the other links I provided in this thread work fine.
 
Could someone give me a quick recap as to the reason why Brown was killed by this supposed conspiracy?

As I pointed out earlier in this thread:

At his death, Ron Brown was under investigation by the FDIC, the Congressional Reform and Oversight Committee, the FBI, the Energy Department, the Senate Judiciary Committee and even his own Commerce Department Inspector General. He was scheduled to be deposed by Judicial Watch regarding the illegal sale of trade mission seats for campaign contributions. He was also about to be indicted by an independent council named Daniel Pearson. Brown's wife and son had already been indicted on related charges by Pearson. Pearson had plenty of documentary evidence and testimony on over a dozen serious crimes (like ending the trade embargo against North Vietnam for $700,000 dollars in bribes). The situation was so serious that Brown had retained a $750/hour attorney and he spoke publicly of his willingness to cut a deal. And matters only got worse. Only days before Brown's death, another 20 witnesses were subpoenaed focusing on Brown's dealings.

Nolanda Hill testified under oath that shortly before the ill fated flight, Brown met with Panetta, the Whitehouse Chief Of Staff, and turned over a stack of documents that would have proven he sold seats on trade missions for very large, illegal, contributions to the DNC. These documents were withheld in violation of the Judicial Watch subpoena. Nolanda swore under oath that Brown told Panetta "if I go down, so will everyone else".

Nolanda Hill also testified that shortly before the flight, Brown went to see Clinton and told him that he intended to enter a plea agreement and turn state's evidence if Clinton didn't quash the investigation. Clinton refused. She then testified that prior to making this threat, Brown wasn't scheduled to be on the trade mission flight that crashed. She says at the last minute the White House told Brown to go. The Whitehouse tried to smear Hill but they never proved that what she claimed was untrue ... for example, by proving that Brown had no meeting with Clinton shortly before the flight.

What you need to understand is that Brown was near the heart of a huge conspiracy. According to Nolanda Hill's sworn testimony, many millions of dollars in illegal DNC and Clinton campaign contributions were received through the sale of trade mission seats and in exchange for authorization by Ron Brown's Commerce Department to sell what in previous administrations was considered highly restricted missile, computer, radar, satellite, manufacturing and encryption technology. Others have testified to brown bags full of illegal campaign cash coming from the Chinese. Riady, who admitted to giving millions is thought to have been a conduit for other Chinese contributions.

Brown worked closely with John Huang (who the FBI labeled a Chinese spy), Riady, Chung, Middleton (highest Clinton Administration official to plead the 5th in Chinagate), and dozens of other people connected with criminal activities by the Clinton's and DNC. Keep in mind that well over a hundred people took the 5th or fled the United States in connection with the Chinagate and campaign finance scandals ... and that was with Reno and the Justice Department seemingly trying to coverup, rather than seriously investigate the matters. If Brown had talked to Pearson, he'd have caused a really serious problem for a lot of people, including Bill Clinton.

I can't but help think that trying to kill him by aircraft crash is a rather expensive, complicated, and very public way of doing it. Why not slip him a drug to cause a heart attack or use some other much more low-key method?

This is the government. They always make things complicated. :)

Regardless of whether it seems complicated or not, pathologists with expertise in gunshot voiced concerns about the wound and called for an autopsy. By law, the FBI should then have been called in. They weren't. And then we have the fact that the pathologist who officially ruled it blunt force trauma clearly lied about the evidence and his reasons for doing so. These facts alone should make one very suspicious.

Also, perhaps this isn't as complicated as you think. Spoofing the plane into a mountain doesn't take much resources. There were advantages to doing it this way. An aircraft accident can immediately be used as the cause of death. Most people won't question it. The crash can take place outside the country in place where access can be controlled (i.e., the press kept out). If he suffered a heart attack, he'd have been autopsied. You can bet on it. And it wouldn't have been an autopsy by the folks at AFIP but by someone connected to the FBI, which Clinton might not have been able to control. A car crash would also have involved civilian investigators who could not be ordered, as military people can be ordered, to do or not do something. But irregardless of how it was done, you still have to deal with what the experts in the case ... the forensic pathologists ... concluded.
 
Well the AIB would insist the pilot(s) would recieve an autopsy because things like drugs, a brain tumor, or a heart attack might affect the pilot(s) ability to fly.

But as I pointed out above, the AIB report apparently indicates that ALL the crew and passengers received autopsies. Although we know for a fact that Brown did not.

Provide your evidence that Brown was flying, and therefore required an autopsy.

Brown required an autopsy because the pathologist who were there say they were suspicious of the wound, called for an autopsy and by law when they did so, there should have been autopsy. But the evidence shows that the Whitehouse, JCS and Commerce Department intervened and prevented an autopsy.

Because that is the only reason an AIB would have been interested in giving his body an autopsy.

You clearly don't know what you are talking about OR, as I said, your reasoning demonstrates just how desperate certain people are that the Ron Brown crash not be looked at closely.

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So tell me ... why didn't THEY call the FBI?

Provide proof that they didn't. I won't speculate until you do.

Show us ANY evidence that the FBI was involved in the investigation of the crash. ANY. Sticking your head in the ground isn't going to work.
 
The point is why was Brown the only one with a “gunshot wound”? There were 33 other passengers, why haven’t any other supposed bullet holes been found on them? Why would one be shot and not anyone else?

Are we just to ignore what the pathologists (the experts) said because you can't make heads or tails regarding what happened? :)

What you don’t have is any evidence that Brown or any one else died of a gunshot.

I have presented the sort of evidence submitted to courts of law all the time. x-rays and the statements of pathologists. You just choose to ignore that.
 
There you go again, putting your own claimed expertise ahead of real experts on this topic ... the military forensic pathologists who where considered the best in the Air Force at the time. Don't you have a pathologist you can quote? Can't you even find ONE? :)

You find me one pathologist that disagrees with the statement I made based on my experience. Word for Word. Find me one that will state that I am wrong when I say that in most cases there will be an large exit wound when someone is shot with a high powered weapon. This is what I said wasnt it?

Perhaps because your tone made me think you weren't really serious about wanting to know the facts. But I tell you what, since I noticed that newsmax has moved it's Ron Brown collection of material to archives (which is why my links to newsmax weren't working), here's are new links to the x-rays of Brown's head that you can use to figure out where the wound was located. Hint: it's on top.

Pot, kettle, black, your tone has been childish to say the least from the first page of this thread. Then you throw another dig in as well?

http://archive.newsmax.com/images/ronbrown/Photo_2.jpg

http://archive.newsmax.com/images/ronbrown/Photo_1.jpg

Strange place for a head shot and very coincedental it is right at the top of his head? Is it supposed to be perfectly round like a round would have made?

Were there any mention of scorch marks or other powder around the wound? Was it a close shot or a far one? Pathologists can tell this very easily at a glance normally.

I'm not claiming it. It's what he's quoted saying he did.

How long did he look for to dismiss any possibility of one part of the aircraft causing the wound?

Well I beg to differ. I think the one I posted on this thread, which was in my own words btw, was quite succinct.

Not by my reckoning that is why I asked for it again. Tell you what, just put it in a small nutshell in simple steps that are easy to follow so we can all see your theroy and how it was carried out from start to finish?

Which are? Go ahead, list them.

I'll go back and have a look later

I didn't say nothing on the plane could have caused the wound. I said Cogswell found nothing at the crash site that in his expert opinion could have caused that particular wound.

As we do not know how long he looked for or how in depth then it is a flimsy piece of evidence to support the case it could only have been a bullet

Well it seems that newsmax has moved everything to their archive so the newsmax links to articles that I posted through the thread are not working. Sorry about that, folks.

Thanks

All the other links I provided in this thread work fine.

Good I will be doing some reading later
 
Well the dec 3rd, 1997 link was a waste of my time

Coulda, woulda, shoulda all the way through and a non pathologist and contradictions in the size of the wound and creepy edited xrays

Please tell me the rest are not like that or I will waste no further time on them

ETA - you never apologized for claiming i did not want another autopsy
 

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