Brexit: the referendum

I think we're past the era when technological and cultural innovation can be attributed to particular nations. The companies and institutions involved, and the financing, are trans-national now, if not supra-national.
 
Craig B said:
Utter nonsense. Fluctuations in commodity prices are not the same thing as constitutional changes. The constitutional arrangements offered to referendum voters by the No side have been substantially changed.
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No they haven't. The option was remain part of the UK or become independent. I am 100% positive that there was no other question asked.
 
truethat said:
I think you know what I mean and are playing the typical type of games I was talking about. But this thread isn't about my experiences. England has show itself to be what it really is with this vote. I'm just relieved that the rest of the world is taking a step back and reassessing who they are really dealing with. Comparatively it's been all about Trump and the US. (Something I'm cringing in embarrassment myself) But for all of England's posturing "votes to keep Trump out." The people there are exactly like the Trump supporters in the US.

If the US elects Trump I suppose I'll have to eat crow myself. But while the English have been ragging on the Americans for years about how "Narrow minded, arrogant, uneducated, racist, etc etc etc, it seems English people have bred a country filled with the same types of people and who are now outnumbering the rest.

Maybe it's time for the English to fix their own problems instead of glomming on American issues all the time.

I just posted that as of this year English teenagers are the most illiterate in the developed world. That's the future coming to England.

Note: I won't discuss this further, because I do believe it's off topic.


The Brexit vote just brought it full focus to everyone's attention, so that's why I mentioned it.
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So since voting to remain was strongly negatively associated with age, do you think that voting to remain was a consequence of the poor quality of education of those of us under 30 and 1 month and voting to leave was due to the higher level of education the over 40s received?

London has one of the highest levels (even on global assessments) of school achievement despite poverty and high levels of non-English speaking families.
 
Darat said:
No they haven't. The option was remain part of the UK or become independent. I am 100% positive that there was no other question asked.
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You are right. Now, what has that to do with the observations I made in my post that you quote?
 
Darat said:
No they haven't. The option was remain part of the UK or become independent. I am 100% positive that there was no other question asked.
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No, but there was plenty of debate around the EU at the time and a key cornerstone of the No campaign was that voting Yes would jeopardize our EU membership and lose us all the benefits of being in the EU.

The very seem people who were busy hatching Operation *************** at Tory HQ to get out of the EU anyway.
 
truethat said:
Exactly, they star in American shows and in HOLLYWOOD movies because England doesn't produce much very successfully on their own. The fact that you wrote this thinking it shows "English leads culturally" just demonstrates what I mean. For a country that's been around as long as England has you'd think they'd been leading in innovations in science, technology, medicine and culture. But they aren't.

This Brexit vote is an indication of how out of touch with reality they are. They really think they can go it alone? :boggled::boggled: Good luck

Another article pointing out the dire future for England.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thin...university-students-are-being-sold-a-lie.html

Teenagers are illiterate, those with higher level education are often majoring in junk degrees that are utterly useless and will not help them get a job. We have the same gripe here in the States but the difference is, tax payers aren't paying for some liberal media illiterate's degree. We pay for them ourselves. ;)

So now that the country is turning how the heck is it going to work out when you have no real infrastructure and have basically alienated your allies by being arrogant xenophobic ijits!?

Only an Englishman would equivocate "culturally innovative" with "actors on television shows in Hollywood." Sigh.
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This is something from the last millennium (excluding Scotland where uni remains free) students have to pay fees and end up in debt. (Excepting me, who as my father pointed out wasted my dowry on becoming expensively overeducated and now am 30, unmarried, but not in debt).

Also see
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36517857
The data is striking. In Great Britain:
Those aged under 25 are a third more likely to be teetotal now than in 2005
A quarter of young people do not drink at all
Illegal drug use among the under-25s has also fallen by more than a quarter since 2004
The number of nightclubs has almost halved since 2005
Teenage pregnancy is at its lowest since records began in England and Wales in 1969
The number of crimes committed by under-18s in England and Wales has fallen by 70% since 2005, to a new record low, according to the Office of National Statistics

So your view of young people in Britain is not supported by the facts.
 
I didn't say anything about any of those things and so they are nothing to do with what I'm talking about. What does drinking and getting pregnant have to do with being literate?

The point is, not only are these "University Degrees" useless they are filled with illiterate people who have lack critical thinking skills. They've essentially been taught to test. An equivalent in the US would be a typical University of Phoenix Graduate who got a crash course degree that they could throw on a resume but didn't really learn anything.

Lots of stupid people can avoid getting pregnant or drinking or going to nightclubs.

I'm not saying English youth is stupid btw, I'm saying they are illiterate which is incredibly surprising considering how much the English regard themselves as being intelligent.

http://www.literacytrust.org.uk/adult_literacy/illiterate_adults_in_england

There's a video on this link that explains it.

https://www.oecd.org/skills/piaac/
 
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truethat said:
Why thank ya! You know the second part is interesting because I think that may have been true in some areas, but I live in NYC. We tend to get every kind of traveler because it's a capital city and main tourist destination.

So go down to a tourist trap like 42nd Street on a Sunday and you won't be getting lots of sophisticated people there. That's why us natives avoid it. (One of my pet peeves is when tourists go there and meet lots of rude obnoxious pushy tourists from other places and try to say that's what NYers are like.)

And again, off topic so I'll tip my hat at this conversation as well.:thumbsup::cool:

Back to the Brexit vote. This great documentary by Trevor Phillips. Here's a link to Youtube. He made this documentary 2 years ago and if you watch from 49 minutes in, you will see EXACTLY what I am talking about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb2iFikOwYU


This vote is not suprising at all.
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By what possible definition of Capital City does New York qualify? It isn't even capital of its state, that's Albany!
 
Damien Evans said:
By what possible definition of Capital City does New York qualify? It isn't even capital of its state, that's Albany!
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Hmmm, maybe I used the wrong word. I meant a main tourist destination type city. Unlike Albany. I can't think of the word I meant now. Rats. Maybe someone else will know.
 
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truethat said:
I didn't say anything about any of those things and so they are nothing to do with what I'm talking about. What does drinking and getting pregnant have to do with being literate?

The point is, not only are these "University Degrees" useless they are filled with illiterate people who have lack critical thinking skills. They've essentially been taught to test. An equivalent in the US would be a typical University of Phoenix Graduate who got a crash course degree that they could throw on a resume but didn't really learn anything.

Lots of stupid people can avoid getting pregnant or don't drink or not go to night clubs.

I'm not saying English youth is stupid btw, I'm saying they are illiterate which is incredibly surprising considering how much the English regard themselves as being intelligent.

http://www.literacytrust.org.uk/adult_literacy/illiterate_adults_in_england

There's a video on this link that explains it.

https://www.oecd.org/skills/piaac/
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so your first reference says

"Less than one per cent of adults in England would be described as completely illiterate, although this absolute definition is not often used.
More common is the use of the term "functionally literate". Around 16 per cent, or 5.2 million adults in England, can be described as "functionally illiterate". They would not pass an English GCSE and have literacy levels at or below those expected of an 11-year-old. "

So 11 year olds have higher levels of literacy than adults of ALL ages. This implies current and future school leavers are more literate than their predecessors.

See here
http://thelearningcurve.pearson.com/index/index-ranking
England ranks 6 behind Finland, and various SEA 'countries' e.g. Hong Kong, Singapore,

Or you could try here where UK is top.
http://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/education-full-list

Here UK does not do so well.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/e...s-of-education-across-the-world-10247405.html
But all 3 place England / UK above US.
 
truethat said:
I didn't say anything about any of those things and so they are nothing to do with what I'm talking about. What does drinking and getting pregnant have to do with being literate?

The point is, not only are these "University Degrees" useless they are filled with illiterate people who have lack critical thinking skills. They've essentially been taught to test.An equivalent in the US would be a typical University of Phoenix Graduate who got a crash course degree that they could throw on a resume but didn't really learn anything.

Lots of stupid people can avoid getting pregnant or drinking or going to nightclubs.

I'm not saying English youth is stupid btw, I'm saying they are illiterate which is incredibly surprising considering how much the English regard themselves as being intelligent.

http://www.literacytrust.org.uk/adult_literacy/illiterate_adults_in_england

There's a video on this link that explains it.

https://www.oecd.org/skills/piaac/
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I'm sorry but your links don't support the underlined assertions.

"More common is the use of the term "functionally literate". Around 16 per cent, or 5.2 million adults in England, can be described as "functionally illiterate". They would not pass an English GCSE and have literacy levels at or below those expected of an 11-year-old. "

A GCSE is needed before taking an A-Level course which is the requirement for entry into tertiary schools in England. So to say their Universities are full of "functionally literate" people is a falsehood.

ETA: A study found that 32 millions adults are functionally illiterate in the USA BTW.

http://www.intellectualtakeout.org/...e-functionally-illiterate-what-does-even-mean
 
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Hmmm this article by Richard Florida actually breaks down a lot of the innovation and industry ideas we were discussing. I'm not sure exactly how it breaks down but it seems I'm wrong about England. They pay for a lot of research in technology, maybe they aren't actually coming up with the ideas and doing the work, but they pay for it, so that's a real contribution I can't slight them for.

http://www.citylab.com/tech/2011/10/worlds-leading-nations-innovation-and-technology/224/
 
lobosrul said:
I'm sorry but your links don't support the underlined assertions.

"More common is the use of the term "functionally literate". Around 16 per cent, or 5.2 million adults in England, can be described as "functionally illiterate". They would not pass an English GCSE and have literacy levels at or below those expected of an 11-year-old. "

A GCSE's is needed before taking an A-Level course which is the requirement for entry into tertiary schools in England.
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You aren't interpreting it the way I would. You see how you equate "literacy" with "being able to pass a test." Go look through all my posts and you'll see I said over and over and over again, they "teach to tests." I've never said they can't pass a test.

I said they lack critical thinking skills, higher order literacy. Watch the video in the clip.

I didn't INVENT these statistics. English teens ages 16-24 have the lowest literacy rates in the developed world. They are taught to test.
 
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