Brexit: the referendum

truethat said:
You aren't interpreting it the way I would. You see how you equate "literacy" with "being able to pass a test." Go look through all my posts and you'll see I said over and over and over again, they "teach to tests." I've never said they can't pass a test.

I said they lack critical thinking skills, higher order literacy. Watch the video in the clip.

I didn't INVENT these statistics. English teens ages 16-24 have the lowest literacy rates in the developed world. They are taught to test.
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How else are literacy rates quantified except through testing?
 
lobosrul said:
How else are literacy rates quantified except through testing?
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It depends on the kind of testing. But this is really off topic. I'll talk to you about it in PM or you could start another topic if you want.

Back to Brexit. Here's an editorial from a young British man who does a good job of fighting for his country's future.


https://www.theguardian.com/comment...rexit-disaster-save-future-referendum-fallout


For millions of people who voted remain, this feels like a very bad dream. Just thinking about the coming years is as exhausting as it is terrifying. From economic chaos to the legitimisation of xenophobia and racism; from the coming dismantling of the United Kingdom to the stress placed on the Northern Ireland peace process; from the ascent of the Tory hard right to the coming attacks on everything from workers’ rights to the NHS; from the inevitable anger that will follow the leave campaign’s abandonment of their unachievable promises to the inevitable retribution from a European Union that fears for its existence and that suffers from the Brexit aftershocks. Any one of these in isolation would be difficult to deal with. They are all coming together, and they are coming fast.
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I think we'd feel the same way in the US if Trump wins.
 
To get back on subject. The UK government will want some sort of control of immigration. (Approx 14% or one in seven of UK population are migrants, about evenly split between EU and non EU.) So I guess the question is what is the best deal the UK can get whilst allowing some control of immigration. EU seems to be saying not the Norwegian model.
 
Illiteracy is defined as the inability to read and write.

It seems that truethat has a different understanding of the word compared to the rest of us.
 
ceptimus said:
Illiteracy is defined as the inability to read and write.

It seems that truethat has a different understanding of the word compared to the rest of us.
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I've found that a common trait among those who practice argument by assertion is that they feel free to personally redefine words on a whim to suit their own purposes.
 
truethat said:
These are not my words. It's the word used in article after article. I'm sorry you guys don't understand the distinction. But I didn't invent this term.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/young-peop...racy-levels-developed-world-says-oecd-1540711

http://www.itv.com/news/2016-01-29/british-youngsters-most-illiterate-in-developed-world/

http://www.concrete-online.co.uk/british-teenagers-most-illiterate-in-developed-world/

http://www.teachingtimes.com/articles/school-leavers-functionally-illiterate.htm
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Perhaps it might help if you expand on what you mean by illiterate, because the first definition to come to mind is 'can't read'.

I think part of the terminology problem is that most of these articles are talking about 'functionally illiterate' and 'functionally innumerate'; these have quite specific definitions and case study examples. The journos or perhaps (eg) OECD press releases are turning that into 'low skill levels'. You (and one of your articles) then lump critical thinking skills in with that, and reduce the phrase to 'illiterate'.

I confess I'm not sure what your argument is now - I thought at first you were saying that low literacy rates were what caused the Leave vote, but now it looks like you are saying that low rates of skills across a range of concepts (for which a shorthand could be 'intelligence', maybe) are causing broad problems in England. Please correct me if that's wrong.

On scots being savvy and intelligent, when I was in the UK, I remember reading Welsh press which bemoaned the fact Wales' functional illiteracy was the lowest in the UK at about 80%. Scotland and England were next in that order, but so close as to be statistically insignificant. The latest Scottish figures I found actually put them about 1 percentage point behind the UK average, but those are from 2009. The new figures will be published in May next year, as their survey has only just finished. In saying Scots are intelligent, do you mean you think they display a higher level of skills?

This'll probably all be split off soon.
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
And Malta.
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Yeah, while they do have an official EU language, like the Irish, it is rarely used in meetings.

In EU meetings I was lucky to go to, Malta provided 3 interpreters (usually the most attractive, both women and men, but that's beside the point). Their Ministers normally spoke Maltese to make their formal, on the record, point, but the Maltese team would remove their headsets to listen in English and always did their informal work in English or Italian. I believe their office actually operated in English, from my sole visit. The UK sits beside Malta, so I got to hear them complaining - they would usually bemoan the fact the interpreters didn't know the technical terms in Maltese and would make stuff up.
 
truethat said:
.......I'm not saying English youth is stupid btw, I'm saying they are illiterate.........
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Well that is an incredibly stupid (and probably illiterate) comment to make. Which part of "99% literacy rates" are you finding difficult to understand?

BTW, you made a completely false........I mean 100% wrong......statement about university fees in the UK being paid for by state, and I can't see that you have acknowledged you are wrong. Do you understand now that you are 100% wrong in this matter, and that university fees have been a private matter for all of the 21st century?

Do you know what else in your <snip> comments is hilarious? The "Scots are intelligent and savvy" comment........because aligned with the gormless nonsense about university tuition being state funded it makes your case look even sillier: in Scotland, uniquely in the UK, university tuition fees ARE funded by the state!

Let's face it, truehat. You haven't actually said anything at all of substance in this thread which is actually right. That surprises no-one.

Edited by jsfisher: 
Edited for compliance with Rule 12 of the Membership Agreement.
 
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Planigale said:
To get back on subject. The UK government will want some sort of control of immigration. (Approx 14% or one in seven of UK population are migrants, about evenly split between EU and non EU.) So I guess the question is what is the best deal the UK can get whilst allowing some control of immigration. EU seems to be saying not the Norwegian model.
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14% seems extremely low. Why are so many up in arms over, by world standards, a low migrant rate?
 
At the end of the day you lot voted to leave.

Cameron if he had the balls would veto it
 
truethat said:
......Here's an editorial from a young British man who does a good job of fighting for his country's future.........
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It can't be so. A young British man, writing! Don't be ridiculous. He must have dictated it to an American.
 
lobosrul said:
How else are literacy rates quantified except through testing?
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truethat has introduced an unusual and unmeasurable interpretation of "literate" in order to support a mindless rant. She has created an unfalsifiable position and yet yammers about 'lack of critical thinking skills', which is pretty ironic.
 
Planigale said:
...... Around 16 per cent, or 5.2 million adults in England, can be described as "functionally illiterate"......
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Even this figure needs some caution, particularly as it relates to the British education system. Many immigrants arrive without speaking a word of English (this is particularly true of Asian women), and many women in particular who were educated in the third world have low literacy levels. So whilst the overall figure might be depressing, it isn't all as a result of failings in the UK education system.
 
GlennB said:
truethat has introduced an unusual and unmeasurable interpretation of "literate" in order to support a mindless rant. She has created an unfalsifiable position and yet yammers about 'lack of critical thinking skills', which is pretty ironic.
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Exactly.
 
MikeG said:
Even this figure needs some caution, particularly as it relates to the British education system. Many immigrants arrive without speaking a word of English (this is particularly true of Asian women), and many women in particular who were educated in the third world have low literacy levels. So whilst the overall figure might be depressing, it isn't all as a result of failings in the UK education system.
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Don't worry your 'Blame it on immigrants' bingo cards are at the printers and will be with us shortly.
 
Here's yet another BBC article. This time it's looking at why people in Sunderland voted overwhelmingly to Leave. For them it mostly comes down to immigration one way or another.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-36654388

It seems that the possible impact on the local Nissan plant and the loss of EU grant money was not so much of a factor, or perhaps so much of a worry.
 
Truethat is correct, the USA does indeed lead the way, just behind Italy!

LINK


Oh, Truethat, please pick one term, English or British. Your switching twixt the two is quite annoying. I know that you yanks are thick as pig-crap (see link above), but try to remember this distinction.
English - relating to England or its people
British - relating to Great Britain or the United Kingdom (inc Wales, Scotland, N. Ireland, none of which will thank you for calling them English. In certain parts, calling some people English is akin to using the 'N' word)


Tip: If trying to take the piss out of a whole nation for being illiterate, learn where your capital city is first. That way you'll look less, only slightly, but you will look less, of a complete twat!
 
The Don said:
Here's yet another BBC article. This time it's looking at why people in Sunderland voted overwhelmingly to Leave. For them it mostly comes down to immigration one way or another.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-36654388

It seems that the possible impact on the local Nissan plant and the loss of EU grant money was not so much of a factor, or perhaps so much of a worry.
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The mind boggles.
The BoE has already spent, what is it, 20 years worth of EU subs in the last week. And if they think immigration is going to be lowered or that 'Free Movement' will be off the table come renegotiation time then those Mackams are going to be pretty upset.
 
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