Brexit: the referendum

Stuart said:
One interesting info graphic I saw on the voting trends, was that a voter was more inclined to vote leave with their area getting more EU funding.

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Given that poorer areas tended to vote Leave it's not surprising
 
3point14 said:
I think there are a fair few people about so used to their vote having absolutely no relationship to the way the country is run that they had so little respect for the system and for their vote that they thought it would be a bit funny to use it in an anti-establishment sort of a way, tee-hee.

Do we have years of political disenfranchisement to blame for what is likely to be a very depressing next 40 years?


-Related - The Parliamentary Labour Party are clamouring for the head of the man elected by the members of the labour Party not exactly a lifetime ago.
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I think you've hit the nail on the end with this. Politics has become a game for a small and almost homogeneous group of the upper middle class, a lot of people feel 'why bother' examining the minutiae of political prospectuses when the differences in the parties come down to exactly how quickly they will sell what remains of the country to their city buddies and at exactly what discount while jobs, wages services are screwed into the ground and millionaire politicos spend their term in office giving public money to private companies that then hand them directorships as they tell the plebs on zero hour contracts that we're all middle class now and 'in it together'.

I've never agreed with not voting, but I can sympathise with the protest voters and even see (at the same time as wanting to bang my head on the desk with frustration) why seeming to be a nice guy (BoJo) or 'just an ordinary bloke' (Farage) gets people's votes. It's just a shame that these are just facades for such power hungry, self serving political factions.
 
P.J. Denyer said:
I think you've hit the nail on the end with this. Politics has become a game for a small and almost homogeneous group of the upper middle class, a lot of people feel 'why bother' examining the minutiae of political prospectuses when the differences in the parties come down to exactly how quickly they will sell what remains of the country to their city buddies and at exactly what discount while jobs, wages services are screwed into the ground and millionaire politicos spend their term in office giving public money to private companies that then hand them directorships as they tell the plebs on zero hour contracts that we're all middle class now and 'in it together'.

I've never agreed with not voting, but I can sympathise with the protest voters and even see (at the same time as wanting to bang my head on the desk with frustration) why seeming to be a nice guy (BoJo) or 'just an ordinary bloke' (Farage) gets people's votes. It's just a shame that these are just facades for such power hungry, self serving political factions.
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Yes.
 
P.J. Denyer said:
I've never agreed with not voting, but I can sympathise with the protest voters and even see (at the same time as wanting to bang my head on the desk with frustration) why seeming to be a nice guy (BoJo) or 'just an ordinary bloke' (Farage) gets people's votes. It's just a shame that these are just facades for such power hungry, self serving political factions.
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I really can't. I believe it's every voter's responsibility to make an informed decision. Sometimes, protest voting could be argued to be an informed decision. Not this time.
 
theprestige said:
Why is it nonsense? Is there some legal prohibition against denying Scotland independence?
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No, but if the Scots clearly wanted it, to deny it would be politically inopportune. There are many things that goverments are legally entitled to do - the more so as it is governments that make the laws - but that it would be dangerous or counterproductive to do. No law required the then Goverment to give Scotland an autonomous Parliament, but not doing so would have been foolish.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
How would Westminster stop it if the Scottish Government with a big enough mandate unilaterally declared itself independent?
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By force? No wish to do that, let alone power to do so. For this is not 1918, when
In accordance with the Sinn Féin manifesto, their elected members refused to attend Westminster, having instead formed their own parliament. Dáil Éireann ...

The British administration and unionists refused to recognise the Dáil. At its first meeting attended by 27 deputies (other were still imprisoned or impaired) on 21 January 1919 the Dáil issued a Declaration of Independence and proclaimed itself the parliament of a new state, the Irish Republic.​
That was long ago. If we have the will, we will have the agreement.
 
How did turnout affect the EU referendum result? It seems that the lazy youngsters let the aged people (never capable to see the role of EU in the prosperity UK enjoys it seems) crash the British economy. The 'fifth economy of the world' will be soon a mere memory it seems. And the slip may continue as I don't think the EU will give Britain full access to the common market without asking her to maintain the free movement of people and quite many of the European laws (and no word in the decision process this time).

Bad choice. The real way ahead was to push for the important reform of EU (necessary I would argue) from inside while still benefiting from the numerous opt-outs UK enjoyed.
 
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theprestige said:
Why is it nonsense? Is there some legal prohibition against denying Scotland independence?
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Ultimately, yes. The UN statutes on self-determination for example.

Though I doubt it would ever get to that point.

The rUK may be turning itself into a right-wing enclave piece by piece but it's not yet in Banana Republic territory where it would seriously hope to retain Scotland against its will.

They may be able to delay the process, they may be able to put additional hurdles in the way, they may be able to make it very difficult to achieve the goal but ultimately they couldn't stop it if the people of Scotland insist on it.
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
They may be able to delay the process, they may be able to put additional hurdles in the way, they may be able to make it very difficult to achieve the goal but ultimately they couldn't stop it if the people of Scotland insist on it.
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Given predictions of recession, I imagine England would be quite happy to wave goodbye to the Scots' economy. It would reduce the deficit considerably.

How Scotland would pay their bills would be their problem.

The idea isn't really worth consideration.
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
At this stage, no.

There would have to be a Scottish election first with 'we will negotiate independence from the UK' as a manifesto pledge from the SNP. Then they could have the vote in Parliament.

Independence is not currently in the SNP manifesto even though its the stated aim of the party. The pledged policy is to hold a referendum. Actually in this case it wasn't even that explicit in the latest election.

There's no guarantee that an SNP standing on an actual independence ticket would get elected. Hence why they don't promise it.
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Not exactly a case of "Our Lives,Our Fortunes,and Our Sacred Honor" is it?
 
England exit Euros and Europe in the space of 3 days!

At least the performance in Euros will keep the rest of Europe happy. That's what happens when you think that you are better thN the rest.
 
Skeptic Tank said:
Allow me to add a few annotations:

Quote:
Remain
Employed (Those for whom current globalist paradigm is temporarily working out)
Young (Inexperienced, naive)
More Educated (More indoctrinated by an educational system which has been fully converted into an anti-white, anti-patriotism, anti-tradition brainwashing pipeline)
Left (Marxists)
Asians (Racial outsiders benefiting from demographic conquest of someone else's territory and wanting continued access to it)
Blacks (Racial outsiders benefiting from demographic conquest of someone else's territory and wanting continued access to it)
Muslims (Racial/religious outsiders benefiting from demographic conquest of someone else's territory and wanting continued access to it - looking to expand their territory)
AB social groups (Privileged, shielded from consequences of cheap labor flooding in)
Those identifying as British (Those with one or more reason to be unable to identify as English plausibly)
Scots (Chip on shoulder, further from direct impact of increasing diversity for now)
Irish (Chip on shoulder, further from direct impact of increasing diversity for now)
People thinking life got better in the last 30 years (Privileged)

Leave
Unemployed (Those who are not benefiting from current globalist dynamic)
Retired (Experienced, wise, able to remember their nation before recent dramatic demographic changes)
Old (Same as above)
Less Educated (Less indoctrinated into self-hate and hatred of their own people, history, and society)
Right (Those whose worldview is actually constructive and self-sustaining, and in keeping with those who built the nation in the past. As opposed to leftists who are totally destructive and parastitic and who merely burn through the legacy left to them by more traditionalist ancestors)
Christians (People with a connection to the longstanding religious history of England)
Whites (People with a connection to the longstanding, ancient, native genomes of the British Isles)
Council tenants
C2DE social groups (People who stand to be replaced by cheap immigrant labor the greedy globalists wish to flood in by the millions)
Those indentifying as English not British (Those with a real connection to England and a good reason to want to see it continue to have its own identity and connection to its history rather than just become a soulless playground for globalist diversity social experimentation)
English (Same as above)
Welsh (Less of a chip on the shoulder than Scots and Irish, closer to Ground Zero of diversity's impact)
People thinking life has got worse in the last 30 years (People with a legitimate reason to feel that way because they've seen their country taken from them and given more and more to outsiders with no real connection to it)
People paying little or no attention to politics (People who are fed up with a political system that has devolved into a bunch of people taking turns at screwing them over)

Did I inject a lot of slant here? Yep! Sure did. That's the point. They want you to view this in a certain way, and I want to point out that there's another way entirely to view it, and I happen to think it's also true and accurate.
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Yes but you added bias and prejudice while Lothian just described demographics. There is no other way to review facts but I agree that there are many sick , stupid and smart ways to introduce bias.
 
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