Brexit: the referendum

Bob001 said:
I don't get the reference. Was Murdoch a big Leave proponent?
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I don't know, but a concerted Sun/Times campaign would be the only way it wouldn't cause absolute uproar. A good few stories on 'propaganda' 'here is the truth you weren't told' and there might just be enough momentum behind it for someone to propose a second 'are you sure' referendum.

The above is pure speculation. I like the (unrealistic) thought that there might be some way we might be able to collectively change our minds, it makes me less depressed.
 
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At the end of the day the UK needs the EU and vice versa.

Can see a fairly quickly organised free trade agreement between the two with the UK not having the crap bits
 
Bob001 said:
TV reporters are finding people across the UK who say they voted Leave as a protest, never realizing that they could win. The sudden economic impact is serving as a wake-up call to others. And of course Scotland and Northern Ireland voted heavily to stay in the EU. Question: Is there a mechanism that would allow a "re-do?" Apparently these results are not binding in a formal, legal sense. Could Parliament or someone else say "Wait a minute. Now that the pound has collapsed and the stock market has plummeted overnight, maybe you'd like to reconsider?"
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This crossed my mind too. The only way I can see it happening is if Labour include a pledge to remain in the EU in their next election manifesto. If the public are already getting cold feet, this could take them into government with a mandate to ignore the referendum.
 
cullennz said:
At the end of the day the UK needs the EU and vice versa.

Can see a fairly quickly organised free trade agreement between the two with the UK not having the crap bits
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They ain't going to get the same deals they had when in the EU. That's just not going to happen. That's basically asking for a free lunch, and the rest of us aren't willing to provide that.

If the UK wants access to the single market they are going to have to negotiate deals like any other outside nation would. It would likely entail free movement of EU workers. Not getting rid of those pesky Eastern Europeans that easily.
 
uke2se said:
They ain't going to get the same deals they had when in the EU. That's just not going to happen. That's basically asking for a free lunch, and the rest of us aren't willing to provide that.

If the UK wants access to the single market they are going to have to negotiate deals like any other outside nation would. It would likely entail free movement of EU workers. Not getting rid of those pesky Eastern Europeans that easily.
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Obviously not, but they will get one.

A drop in the good side will just be symbolic.
 
Bob001 said:
TV reporters are finding people across the UK who say they voted Leave as a protest, never realizing that they could win. The sudden economic impact is serving as a wake-up call to others. And of course Scotland and Northern Ireland voted heavily to stay in the EU. Question: Is there a mechanism that would allow a "re-do?" Apparently these results are not binding in a formal, legal sense. Could Parliament or someone else say "Wait a minute. Now that the pound has collapsed and the stock market has plummeted overnight, maybe you'd like to reconsider?"
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There isn't any formal mechanism but between the poison chalice of leading the negotiations now facing the likes of Johnson and Gove, and this sudden outpouring of 'remorse' from Leave voters it's not beyond the realm of possibility that someone digs up some constitutional excuse for setting aside the referendum result.
 
cullennz said:
At the end of the day the UK needs the EU and vice versa.

Can see a fairly quickly organised free trade agreement between the two with the UK not having the crap bits
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Not much chance of that. Any deal that was seen as favourable to Britain would potentially engourage other countries to go down the same route and they are not going to do that. Then there are those countries that we don't do a lot of trade with but do benefit from free movement of people, they aren't going to be in a hurry to deal.
 
Ian Osborne said:
This crossed my mind too. The only way I can see it happening is if Labour include a pledge to remain in the EU in their next election manifesto. If the public are already getting cold feet, this could take them into government with a mandate to ignore the referendum.
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No election planned before we leave the EU although I think there's a case to be made that there should be especially now Cameron has resigned
 
Noztradamus said:
The franchise



18 years residency. Not mentally incompetent, no felony record, net taxpayer
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And not older than 50-60 :p. A lot of regression we are seeing is solely on the feet of older people being out of touch with reality. (and yes before someone ask that means I would very soon not be able to vote. i am fine with that).
 
Aepervius said:
And not older than 50-60 :p. A lot of regression we are seeing is solely on the feet of older people being out of touch with reality. (and yes before someone ask that means I would very soon not be able to vote. i am fine with that).
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Nope. Below 50 you vote for the Lower House only. Above 50 for the Upper House only.
 
Noztradamus said:
I'm putting immigrants on the same standard as natural born. How is that a race test?
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It's a proxy race test. It will selectively affect minorities. This kind of thing is common in polities where pure racism "dare not speak its name" in constitutional matters. Consider the "literacy" tests and poll taxes which were used to exclude black US citizens from the suffrage until the 1960s in certain parts of the USA.
 
Nationalism coming back. Deal with it and brace yourselves for lots, lots more!

Thrilled with this result.
 
Bob001 said:
TV reporters are finding people across the UK who say they voted Leave as a protest, never realizing that they could win. The sudden economic impact is serving as a wake-up call to others. And of course Scotland and Northern Ireland voted heavily to stay in the EU. Question: Is there a mechanism that would allow a "re-do?" Apparently these results are not binding in a formal, legal sense. Could Parliament or someone else say "Wait a minute. Now that the pound has collapsed and the stock market has plummeted overnight, maybe you'd like to reconsider?"
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Garrison said:
There isn't any formal mechanism but between the poison chalice of leading the negotiations now facing the likes of Johnson and Gove, and this sudden outpouring of 'remorse' from Leave voters it's not beyond the realm of possibility that someone digs up some constitutional excuse for setting aside the referendum result.
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I live in Somerset, which voted 61.2% for Leave, and I'd describe the mood on the streets as subdued rather than jubilant. As if it's sinking in that a 'protest vote' can have damaging real-world ramifications.

There's a good round-up of possibilities in this article:

http://www.bustle.com/articles/1688...rexit-vote-many-in-the-uk-are-itching-for-one

and there's (inevitably) a petition to sign, which has leapt from 115,000 yesterday to 662,961 this morning:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

(hope is important)
 
Giz said:
This would logically result in a 2-tier citizenry, correct?

Those who can score greater than X on some kind of metric (test or education or income) who are eligible to vote, to serve on juries, etc.
Then there would be the others... who would be permitted to vote on 'Britain's Got Talent'.

Whilst undoubtedly meritocratic, it also sounds terribly dystopian.
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Sounds fantastic and very healthy for a society. A society which recognizes inequality is a more realistic and functional one.

Btw, this would be the mother of all "disproportionate impact" situations. These tiers of citizenship would be very racially segregated. Plenty of overlap, but stepping back far enough away to see the big picture would look a lot like a racial caste system.

Which would be fine by me.

Craig B said:
It's a proxy race test. It will selectively affect minorities. This kind of thing is common in polities where pure racism "dare not speak its name" in constitutional matters. Consider the "literacy" tests and poll taxes which were used to exclude black US citizens from the suffrage until the 1960s in certain parts of the USA.
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Blacks haven't been suppressed and oppressed by societies like South Africa and America just for kicks n' giggles.

Doing so is absolutely crucial to maintaining any sort of social order and societal viability long term. A crash course in this fact is coming, and has already been thoroughly demonstrated in South Africa.
 
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