Brexit: the referendum

Roofgardener said:
Oooh right... I didn't know some of that stuff. Thanks CapelDodger.

I disagree about the population increase though. Or rather, I have a quibble. Growth - in GDP terms - is not synonymous with quality of life, or social cohesion. In addition, continuously increasing GDP is a chimera anyway.
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In what way is it a chimera ?

noun, plural chimeras.
1.
(often initial capital letter) a mythological, fire-breathing monster, commonly represented with a lion's head, a goat's body, and a serpent's tail.
2.
any similarly grotesque monster having disparate parts, especially as depicted in decorative art.
3.
a horrible or unreal creature of the imagination; a vain or idle fancy:
He is far different from the chimera your fears have made of him.
4.
Genetics. an organism composed of two or more genetically distinct tissues, as an organism that is partly male and partly female, or an artificially produced individual having tissues of several species.
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Roofgardener said:
I earned a million pounds yesterday.
I earned a million pounds today.
I forecast to earn a million pounds tomorrow.
In economic terms, that is regarded as recession. In practical terms, I'm sitting back in my yacht, sipping Pimms, and thoroughly relaxed about the whole thing !
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Strictly speaking you couldn't claim a recession unless you've had two consecutive quarters of contraction in GDP.

Right now, given how relatively feeble the recovery is in, two consecutive quarters of contraction in GDP would not be good news
 
Roofgardener said:
ACtually, an investigation by the House of Lords in the early 2000's concluded that the "benefits" of immigration where mostly illusory, and that migrants had a zero, or slightly negative, impact in purely financial terms. However, that was prior to the EU expansion, and the large influx of eastern europeans, so it may be out of date now.
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And yet numerous detailed studies show significant benefits.

Captain_Swoop said:
Fishermen destroyed their livelihoods by catching all the fish.
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Exactly. If only the EEC had intervened earlier.
 
Ian Osborne said:
Interesting thought. Boris Johnson has nailed his knickers to the Brexit mast to the point that if we stay in the EU, he can't help but go down with his ship. If we leave the EU, the resulting chaos and recession will make him a toxic option for future governments. Either way, we'll see the back of the fop-haired twat.
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I totally agree, and it strikes me as such a predictable outcome that I'm surprised he made his move when he did.
 
Ian Osborne said:
Interesting thought. Boris Johnson has nailed his knickers to the Brexit mast to the point that if we stay in the EU, he can't help but go down with his ship. If we leave the EU, the resulting chaos and recession will make him a toxic option for future governments. Either way, we'll see the back of the fop-haired twat.
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I've heard the same said for Farage / UKIP.
If there vote is leave, then it's by-bye as you've done the job you said you would.
If its stay, it's bye-bye as there (apparently) won't another referendum, so you're not needed.
 
Ian Osborne said:
Interesting thought. Boris Johnson has nailed his knickers to the Brexit mast to the point that if we stay in the EU, he can't help but go down with his ship. If we leave the EU, the resulting chaos and recession will make him a toxic option for future governments. Either way, we'll see the back of the fop-haired twat.
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GlennB said:
I totally agree, and it strikes me as such a predictable outcome that I'm surprised he made his move when he did.
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If only.

Bojo has definitely raised his profile with this campaign and his stock is higher than ever.

If we stay the fight goes on to reform the EU and he wants to be at the heart of it. If we leave, he's delivered what the people want.

As the economy tanks he can just blame whoever is the scapegoat this time round - the Muslims or the Scots no doubt - and keep peddling his nonsense.

Reality is no longer important in politics. Only who can tell the biggest lies.
 
Argumemnon said:
I must admit that I haven't followed the topic very closely. Could you expand on that?
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A couple of examples:

Constantly claiming EU membership costs - or rather "we send to Brussels" - £350 million per week. Actually £250 million sent, get £86½ million a week back in grants and subsidies, and being in being worth £923 million a week (net benefit £760 million a week).

An specific EU directive forced the selling off of the state-owned Royal Mail. An EU directive which demonstrably did not force the selling off of the state-owned postal services of various other EU countries, as their ownership status has been unchanged.
 
Information Analyst said:
A couple of examples:

Constantly claiming EU membership costs - or rather "we send to Brussels" - £350 million per week. Actually £250 million sent, get £86½ million a week back in grants and subsidies, and being in being worth £923 million a week (net benefit £760 million a week).

An specific EU directive forced the selling off of the state-owned Royal Mail. An EU directive which demonstrably did not force the selling off of the state-owned postal services of various other EU countries, as their ownership status has been unchanged.
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Can you explain the 923 million? (Apologies if already addressed)
 
Giz said:
Can you explain the 923 million? (Apologies if already addressed)
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It's a good example of a Remain lie. And an even bigger whopper than the £350 million from the Leave side. Actually the gross figure before our rebate is nearer £360 million.
 
Information Analyst said:
And selling their UK fishing licences to non-UK vessels.
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My brother's office deals with fishing quotas amongst other things and he said that that was part of the problem.

We were discussing this, and I said that possibly fishermen were the largest group with a rational reason for wanting to leave and he said that even that wouldn;'t make andy difference
 
ceptimus said:
It's a good example of a Remain lie. And an even bigger whopper than the £350 million from the Leave side.
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I'll make this nice and simple for you:
1. We are supposed to pay £18 billion (£346 million per week)
2. £5 billion rebate deducted at our end, and we actually pay £13 billion (£250 million per week)
3. We get £4½ billion back - net payment £8½ billion (£163½ million per week)
4. EU membership is caclulated to be worth £48 billion (£923 million per week)
5. Net benefit therefore £39½ million (£759½ million per week).

Actually the gross figure before our rebate is nearer £360 million.
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That would be a mathematically dyslexic lie.
 
ceptimus said:
Yeah, it's point 4 that's the big lie.
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Well, let's just say we'd like to know how that figure was calculated. If it's the net profit from trade with other EU countries then it would have to be adjusted in light of trade with the EU that would still happen after Brexit.
 
After Brexit, look forward to endless "Fog in Channel" headline jokes on both sides....

Sniff, that channel is going to feel a lot wider than it used, soon enough. Bye, Avalon! I won't care anymore if King Arthur was old Roman or Saxon, or about any other important British issue again. No Stones vs Beatles controversy mongering. No pilgrimage to the stand of monkey trees in Somerset where Alfred spent the night before relaunching from almost nothing.

Fine. You can have your bad teeth and silly haircuts and Monty Python. Do know, young man or whoever you are, I shall expect a full one of these before you go.
 
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