Brexit: the referendum

Roofgardener said:
A disastrous flood ? There where around 30,000 of them in total .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ugandan_migration_to_the_United_Kingdom

We currently have almost ten times that number of immigrants per year . (half from EU countries).

In comparison, not so much a flood as a trickle. Or even a drip.

I would suggest the extension of "corner shop" opening hours was more down to Pakistani immigrants throughout the 50's and 60's, rather than Ugandan Asians in the 1970's ?
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I think CapelDodger was being ironic.
 
catsmate said:
Was she born in Ireland? If so yes; you'd need to register with Foreign Births Register.
If she was born outside Ireland you'd need to prove she was the child of a person who was and Irish citizen, or entitled to be an Irish citizen. Legitimacy isn't a requirement, if parentage can be demonstrated.
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The short version is that the father - very definitely born in West Cork - came over to England to join the army pre-WW1, and then got a job a a policeman in Yorkshire after that. He had a relationship with my great-grandmother, she got pregnant, and he did a runner to Australia before the baby (my grandmother) was born. The outbreak of WW1 was during his period of army reserve service, so he came back, was in France in early 1915, and survived until he took a bullet to the shoulder in October 1918. Medically evacuated back to the UK, he was discharged and went home to West Cork, contracting Spanish 'Flu in the process, and dying there, never having seen his daughter. We are in contact with the family in West Cork, and have have been over to visit multiple times (and naturally everyone has been very welcoming).
 
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Roofgardener said:
A disastrous flood ? There where around 30,000 of them in total .
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And it was presented as the end of the world as we know it. Trust me, I was there at the time.

We currently have almost ten times that number of immigrants per year . (half from EU countries).
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Which is being presented as the end of the world as we know it.

In comparison, not so much a flood as a trickle. Or even a drip.
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And yet mightily overblown. Again.

I would suggest the extension of "corner shop" opening hours was more down to Pakistani immigrants throughout the 50's and 60's, rather than Ugandan Asians in the 1970's ?
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A reasonable thought on the face of it, but wrong. Immigrants from the sub-continent came to work in factories, transport and the health service. The Ugandan Asians came from a mercantile, entrepreneurial tradition, which is why they were in East Africa in the first place. They looked for and found gaps in the British market and filled them.

Sub-continental immigration (presented as a very serious cultural threat by the familiar voices - Mail, Express, Torygraph, Tories - and the now-extinct trades union dinosaurs) brought us curry-houses, initially to serve the immigrant community.

Something that's usually missed is that population increase generates its own economic growth, and not just in Polish shops; the demand it generates is general. EU immigrants are disproportionately of working-age, working, earning, and spending. Take that away and there's an automatic recession.
 
CapelDodger said:
...snip...

Something that's usually missed is that population increase generates its own economic growth, and not just in Polish shops; the demand it generates is general. EU immigrants are disproportionately of working-age, working, earning, and spending. Take that away and there's an automatic recession.
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Well they claim it reduces wages according to IDS by 10 per cent, although NIESR argues that:

"The idea that immigration is the main or even a moderately important driver of low pay is simply not supported by the available evidence. Politicians who claim the contrary are either so obsessed with immigration that they are blind to more important issues - or they are merely trying to divert attention from their failure to propose policy measures that would actually make a meaningful difference to the low paid."

From:

http://www.niesr.ac.uk/blog/immigration-and-wages-getting-numbers-right#.V2FDhWf2bct
 
Light23 said:
This was the Leave broadcast I was referring to earlier. I expect it will become legendary, unless of course we actually leave :(

https://youtu.be/h_MzHFiu-6Y


Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
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[Tongue in cheek]Was is an emergency? Doubt it, so she should have called GP / gone to pharmacist. It is that sort of behaviour that clogs up the A&E waiting areas.
Also how long will it take before Farage blames this on the EU

[/Tongue in cheek]

ETA Blimey, no automangle change "Farage" to "garage"
 
CapelDodger said:
And it was presented as the end of the world as we know it. Trust me, I was there at the time.

Which is being presented as the end of the world as we know it.

And yet mightily overblown. Again.

A reasonable thought on the face of it, but wrong. Immigrants from the sub-continent came to work in factories, transport and the health service. The Ugandan Asians came from a mercantile, entrepreneurial tradition, which is why they were in East Africa in the first place. They looked for and found gaps in the British market and filled them.

Sub-continental immigration (presented as a very serious cultural threat by the familiar voices - Mail, Express, Torygraph, Tories - and the now-extinct trades union dinosaurs) brought us curry-houses, initially to serve the immigrant community.

Something that's usually missed is that population increase generates its own economic growth, and not just in Polish shops; the demand it generates is general. EU immigrants are disproportionately of working-age, working, earning, and spending. Take that away and there's an automatic recession.
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Oooh right... I didn't know some of that stuff. Thanks CapelDodger.

I disagree about the population increase though. Or rather, I have a quibble. Growth - in GDP terms - is not synonymous with quality of life, or social cohesion. In addition, continuously increasing GDP is a chimera anyway.

I earned a million pounds yesterday.
I earned a million pounds today.
I forecast to earn a million pounds tomorrow.
In economic terms, that is regarded as recession. In practical terms, I'm sitting back in my yacht, sipping Pimms, and thoroughly relaxed about the whole thing !
 
To quibble constant output would be stagnation not a recession. Also although I agree with your point about GDP not measuring quality of life it still a useful measure as small falls in total output do lead to quite a lot of misery for a number of people
 
Information Analyst said:
The short version is that the father - very definitely born in West Cork - came over to England to join the army pre-WW1, and then got a job a a policeman in Yorkshire after that. He had a relationship with my great-grandmother, she got pregnant, and he did a runner to Australia before the baby (my grandmother) was born. The outbreak of WW1 was during his period of army reserve service, so he came back, was in France in early 1915, and survived until he took a bullet to the shoulder in October 1918. Medically evacuated back to the UK, he was discharged and went home to West Cork, contracting Spanish 'Flu in the process, and dying there, never having seen his daughter. We are in contact with the family in West Cork, and have have been over to visit multiple times (and naturally everyone has been very welcoming).
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OK, from that I'm afraid you're not entitled to claim Irish citizenship unless one of your parents had registered before you were born.
 
Multi-millionaire Irishman hires plush cruiser to interrupt the flotilla of fishermen sailing up the Thames to Parliament protesting that their livelihoods are being destroyed by the EU. (Bob Geldof [in hat] for those that don't know)

Ck_Vs55WkAAP97A.jpg:large
 
Mid said:
To quibble constant output would be stagnation not a recession. Also although I agree with your point about GDP not measuring quality of life it still a useful measure as small falls in total output do lead to quite a lot of misery for a number of people
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True... but only in the case of a static - or increasing - population.
 
Roofgardener said:
True... but only in the case of a static - or increasing - population.
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Well even so given that EU migrants are more economically active than the UK population as a whole (as there's fewer kids and retirees in their numbers) removing their output will lead to falls in GDP per capita in the UK, everything else held constant. Also as all evidence shows migrants in total pay more in taxes than they receive in benefits, schooling, health care etc. it should also push up the deficit a bit as well. Although this impact is likely to be less than the other economic impacts according to NIESR anyway:

http://www.niesr.ac.uk/publications/long-term-macroeconomic-effects-lower-migration-uk#.V2FL5Gf2bct
 
ACtually, an investigation by the House of Lords in the early 2000's concluded that the "benefits" of immigration where mostly illusory, and that migrants had a zero, or slightly negative, impact in purely financial terms. However, that was prior to the EU expansion, and the large influx of eastern europeans, so it may be out of date now.
 
Well most studies of the impact of EU migrants seem to argue they've had a positive impact although the net impact is dependent on where in the EU they come from. In general though arguing that EU migration has caused massive gains/losses to the UK economy is a bit of side-track in the economic debate about EU membership.
 
Interesting thought. Boris Johnson has nailed his knickers to the Brexit mast to the point that if we stay in the EU, he can't help but go down with his ship. If we leave the EU, the resulting chaos and recession will make him a toxic option for future governments. Either way, we'll see the back of the fop-haired twat.
 
Sunstealer said:
Multi-millionaire Irishman hires plush cruiser to interrupt the flotilla of fishermen sailing up the Thames to Parliament protesting that their livelihoods are being destroyed by the EU. (Bob Geldof [in hat] for those that don't know)

[qimg]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ck_Vs55WkAAP97A.jpg:large[/qimg]
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Fishermen destroyed their livelihoods by catching all the fish.
 
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