Brexit: Now What? Part III

[MikeG]

Euroskepticism is, at it's very core, a populist project

So what? No one disputed that.

that can only ask questions and never provide answers.

Twaddle

All Euroskeptic projects that I know of, including Brexit, were populist in their very nature.

So what? No one disputed that. Do you have a problem with democracy?

If this was in doubt a year ago it is clear now, Brexiteers have no answers to any of the hard questions posed by Brexit. It wasn't a sensible question of national policy but a populist stunt which backfired.

Twaddle. All of it.

The only question left is whether it had a right-wing slant or not.

That was the only question we were discussing, so all of the above is just pointless filler.

Given that "taking control of borders" is given top priority with "national sovereignty" coming as a close second, the only proper way to describe it is a right-wing populist project.

By whom?
You are making too many leaps. You decide that borders and sovereignty are top priority. You decide that they are right wing issues. You decide that because some of the matters raised in the campaign were on a right wing agenda that the entirety of the campaign is a right wing one.

The reason why each individual voter voted for Brexit doesn't even come into play.

Do you have a problem with democracy?

McHrozni

We know. It's at the top of every post,. Is there any need to write it out every time?

 

[The Don]

So, it suits your agenda to call it a right wing campaign. Fine. This does nothing more than show your limited understanding. It certainly doesn't illuminate the subject in any way at all.

It was a right wing campaign insofar as the group which provided the catalyst (UKIP) are a right wing party, many of the most prominent supporters of Brexit were right wingers, the newspapers who for decades carried the stories that sowed the seeds for Brexit (bendy banana bans and the like) were right wing papers, the right wing parties had a majority of their supporters voting Brexit (as opposed to the centreist and left-wing parties for whom an overwhelming majority voted remain), the Brexit campaign was largely funded by right wing donors and the most prominent leaders of the Brexit campaign were right wingers.

That's not to say that a minority of left wingers didn't vote to Leave but not too many left-wing organisations actively campaigned for Brexit and the tiny number that did, did so on a fundamentally different basis from the main thrust of the Leave campaign - their argument being that the EU is a corporatist entity which seeks to promote corporations over the workers and which is unfairly punishing developing nations. Those arguments didn't make much impact on the mainstream debate.

 

[McHrozni]

You have just claimed that the British Parliament gets to decide who the important campaigners were, and what their position is on the political spectrum. Is this a language problem you are having, or a logic problem?

I think it's a logic problem. Yours that is. The parliament gets to decide on whose advice to follow. It decided to follow a bunch of right-wingers.

It doesn't get to decide what their positions were, that's your falsehood.

McHrozni

 

[McHrozni]

So what? No one disputed that.

So one part is not problematic. Glad to have cleared that out.

By whom?

By the parliament. Is that really so hard to grasp?

You are making too many leaps. You decide that borders and sovereignty are top priority.

No, Theresa May did. I'm just saying she did. Anyone who is able to tell between a newspaper and the parliament should be able to grasp this.

You do realize there's a difference between the two, right?

You decide that they are right wing issues.

No, I just observed that the overwhelming amount of Brexit propaganda revolved about right-wing issues: immigrants, national sovereignty, nationalism, borders open for all trade and such.

I decide what they are as much as I decide what color the sky is.

You decide that because some of the matters raised in the campaign were on a right wing agenda that the entirety of the campaign is a right wing one.

No, I observed that, because the overwhelming majority of the campaign and decisions that followed were a right-wing agenda.

Do you have a problem with democracy?

No, you have the problem with the existence of majority opinion.

We know. It's at the top of every post,. Is there any need to write it out every time?

Yes. I like it this way because it tends to annoy jerks.

McHrozni

 

[MikeG]

.......No, you have the problem with the existence of majority opinion......i

Remind me what the referendum result was, again.

 

[McHrozni]

Remind me what the referendum result was, again.

A plurality was in favor of Brexit.

What about it?

McHrozni

 

[MikeG]

...........By the parliament. Is that really so hard to grasp?.....

Yes, it is hard to grasp, because it's slippery ********. What precise role did parliament have in the campaigns?

 

[McHrozni]

Yes, it is hard to grasp, because it's slippery ********. What precise role did parliament have in the campaigns?

In case you didn't notice, I'm talking about what happened after the campaign. The parliament endorsed the option with the right-wing talking points, which also happened to dominate in the campaign.

What's so hard to grasp here anyway?

McHrozni

 

[MikeG]

I think it's a logic problem. Yours that is. The parliament gets to decide on whose advice to follow. It decided to follow a bunch of right-wingers.......i

Precisely what advice, when? I have no idea what point you are trying to make with regard to the campaigns, which is what we are talking about.

 

[MikeG]

In case you didn't notice, I'm talking about what happened after the campaign...........

I didn't notice, because we were talking about what happened before and during the campaign. Go back to #2060.

 

[MikeG]

.....Yes. I like it this way because it tends to annoy jerks.

McHronzi

Nice edit. Afraid of the mods?

 

[MikeG]

A plurality majority was in favor of Brexit.

McHronzi

FTFY

 

[McHrozni]

FTFY

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/majority
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/plurality

Meaning 3.a in both cases. Cheers.

McHrozni

 

[McHrozni]

I didn't notice, because we were talking about what happened before and during the campaign.

I was talking about project Brexit before, during and after the campaign and the vote.

What you were talking about is beyond my comprehension. About how you don't understand the difference between deciding something and observing something, mostly.

McHrozni

 

[MikeG]

Go back to #2060 and answer that.

 

[McHrozni]

Go back to #2060 and answer that.

Take your own advice for a change.

Stop quote mining.

McHrozni

 

[MikeG]

I wasn't. That's the entirety of the conversation. We are clearly talking past each other, and post 2060 sums up what I was talking about.

 

[McHrozni]

I wasn't. That's the entirety of the conversation.

As the multiple ellipses in the quotes of that post indicate you didn't truncate anything, right?

McHrozni

 

[MikeG]

As the multiple ellipses in the quotes of that post indicate you didn't truncate anything, right?

McHronzi

Well, point out what difference any of the omissions made, because I can't see they were of any relevance.

 

[MikeG]

Here it is without any omissions:

Surely no-one can be so stupid as to think that all of those campaigning for Brexit were right wingers? Please, please tell me how Tony Benn is a right winger. This I've got to hear.

DDG

Are you seriously arguing by cherry picking slogans? It's time you started looking into the concept of critical thinking.

Ah no, not all of them.

Just the important ones. You can probably find someone who supports Marine Le Pen because he wants to protect the French workers from unfair competition as well. That doesn't make her a left winger either.

McHronzi

You get to decide this? You're cherry picking again. Do you live in Britain?

No, the British parliament does. Why?

McHronzi