Cont: Brexit: Now What? Part 6. Pick up sticks...

[catsmate]

Having the pharmaceutical industry sign a gagging law is completely contrary to the public's right to know. It implies the drug companies have been paid a substantial sum of money to keep shtum. It is undemocratic and needs to be brought up in Parliament.

No it doesn't. You should learn what an NDA is.

 

[RolandRat]

No it doesn't. You should learn what an NDA is.

Does make me wonder why they are being gagged. I'm also surprised that the Government is allowed to exert this kind of control against private companies.

 

[Amazer]

Does make me wonder why they are being gagged. I'm also surprised that the Government is allowed to exert this kind of control against private companies.

It's not that I want to defend May but in this case i'd say that it's too early to tell whether the reasons for the NDA's is benign or malignent.

While I agree that it just doesn't look too good to be this secretive... I also know that it's SOP for governments (and private companies) to have these signed (and enforced) during the early stages of any project that they engage in. Usually because information is being handled that is highly sensitive or confidential, like personal data for example or simply to prevent insider trading.

Thus far I haven't seen anything that would lead me to believe that it's anything else than normal procedure.

 

[Explorer]

Thus far I haven't seen anything that would lead me to believe that it's anything else than normal procedure.

You must have missed my post above then.

There will be crucial medicines, like my eye drops, without which I could go blind, that one supplier has said will not be available for stockpiling. That surely is reason enough.

 

[Amazer]

You must have missed my post above then.

There will be crucial medicines, like my eye drops, without which I could go blind, that one supplier has said will not be available for stockpiling. That surely is reason enough.

Like I said... I would love to see the UK government being less secretive about the negative impact of Brexit on a whole host of issues (medicines and stockpiling included).

I'll maintain however that so far I haven't seen the evidence that these NDA's are forced on these private companies for nefarious reasons. I know from experience that these NDA's are SOP for just about any activity/project from governments and private companies. The mere fact that these NDA's were issued and signed is not evidence that the government is willfully withholding information which should be in the public domain.

It would be different if one of those companies that is being gagged decides to break the NDA and discloses what information they were required to keep secret... maybe I missed that... I am only human after all... but thus far I haven't seen such information.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

If these NDAs are a thing then I wonder what incentive the companies are being given/have to sign them?

I mean being told to stockpile medicines isnt exactly top secret info

 

[3point14]

It really does appear to be a 'let's get this pushed through before too many people realise what a disaster it is' play.

My deeply suspicious mind then tacks on 'So we can cash up Vlad's cheque and **** off'.

 

[catsmate]

Does make me wonder why they are being gagged. I'm also surprised that the Government is allowed to exert this kind of control against private companies.

Probably to hide the costs of the emergency programme and how vulnerable UKGov is to numerous factors over which it has little control.
NDAs are commonplace, in the public and private sectors.

 

[catsmate]

If these NDAs are a thing then I wonder what incentive the companies are being given/have to sign them?

Agree or there's no deal. They are common contractual provisions.

I mean being told to stockpile medicines isnt exactly top secret info

The price could be, as may other terms of the agreement due to commercial sensitivity.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Agree or there's no deal. They are common contractual provisions.

What deal though? What is the government providing these companies with? That's what I am asking.

The price could be, as may other terms of the agreement due to commercial sensitivity.

The government isn't selling medicine to pharmaceutical companies though. And I don't think NHS purchasing is dealt with that way either. So I'm wondering exactly what the government is providing

 

[fagin]

The NDA is probably just to stop the companies revealing the actual severity of the situation.

Hello mushroom...

 

[Amazer]

What deal though? What is the government providing these companies with? That's what I am asking.









The government isn't selling medicine to pharmaceutical companies though. And I don't think NHS purchasing is dealt with that way either. So I'm wondering exactly what the government is providing

It's probably as simple as keeping any documentation you receive or obtain confidential... as well as any other material one might gain possession of during the project. That is what mine look like... extremely generic.

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[GlennB]

What deal though? What is the government providing these companies with? That's what I am asking.
...
The government isn't selling medicine to pharmaceutical companies though. And I don't think NHS purchasing is dealt with that way either. So I'm wondering exactly what the government is providing

I'm equally baffled. 'Gagging orders' require court action afaik, while NDAs are a commercial matter.

 

[RolandRat]

Probably to hide the costs of the emergency programme and how vulnerable UKGov is to numerous factors over which it has little control.
NDAs are commonplace, in the public and private sectors.

This is public money, it shouldn't be being kept secret. I understand NDAs are pretty much SOP, but when it comes to medicine and/or costs I believe the public has a right to know.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

This is public money, it shouldn't be being kept secret. I understand NDAs are pretty much SOP, but when it comes to medicine and/or costs I believe the public has a right to know.

Yes, but 'wait out the clock and they'll have no choice' seems to the Brexit theme.

 

[Vixen]

It's probably as simple as keeping any documentation you receive or obtain confidential... as well as any other material one might gain possession of during the project. That is what mine look like... extremely generic.

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That is a given part of any contract to provide goods or a service or in the tendering process.

However, there are two sides to any contract. In a contract between the providers of the service and the government, fine.

However, how can the government force two external parties (supplier and receiver) to sign an NDA re Brexit arrangements without some kind of sweetener for the party required to be gagged?

 

[3point14]

That is a given part of any contract to provide goods or a service or in the tendering process.

However, there are two sides to any contract. In a contract between the providers of the service and the government, fine.

However, how can the government force two external parties (supplier and receiver) to sign an NDA re Brexit arrangements without some kind of sweetener for the party required to be gagged?

My suspicion is that they've been presented with the choice to sign the agreement or to be locked out of any discussions.

 

[Amazer]

My suspicion is that they've been presented with the choice to sign the agreement or to be locked out of any discussions.

That's usually the case when potential sensitive issues are discussed... even under otherwise normal circumstances.

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[Jack by the hedge]

I doubt if the NDAs are anything sinister, nor even trying to conceal bad news. In the case of the manufacturer of Explorer's eye drops described above, the Irish manufacturer does not supply more than the UK's immediate requirement, to prevent reselling into its other markets. That implies that the UK NHS pays less than other customers.

If the UK government wants to stockpile some just in case, it's going to have to come to an agreement, both on price and quite likely on a promise not to sell on any surplus. That information is probably sufficiently commercially sensitive to both sides that an NDA just makes sense.

 

[Mongrel]

This is public money, it shouldn't be being kept secret. I understand NDAs are pretty much SOP, but when it comes to medicine and/or costs I believe the public has a right to know.

The NHS pricing structure goes through a few levels, what's probably covered under the NDA is the negotiatians for the price of drugs that the NHS, the Drug Tariff price (available here - https://www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/pharmacies-gp-practices-and-appliance-contractors/drug-tariff). These prices cover the reimbursement prices for Pharmacies in England, Wales and some of the Scottish Prices.

They probably want to keep the negotiations between both the drug manufacturers and the suppliers under NDA to prevent stockpiling by pharmacists, either for them and\or for the small buying groups they set up or to prevent them being resold abroad (legally). There's very little margin on dispensing drugs*, so if a pharmacy can get a good deal on a common item they're going to grab as much as possible with both hands.

Many common items are going to get more expensive though. All of the big suppliers use Parallel Imports to reduce the price\increase the profit of items sold to pharmacies. These are items bought in from abroad and repackaged for the UK market, since we share common licensing with the EU currently it's been pretty easy, after we leave - anyones guess what the paperwork will be like.


*Simplistically - Pharmacies are contracters to the NHS, not employees like Doctors are. They get paid a dispensing fee for every item dispensed as well as being re-imbursed a set price per item as described in the Drug Tariff, Part VIIIA.