Cont: Brexit: Now What? Part 6. Pick up sticks...

[fagin]

So in other words, those aged under 20 signed up voluntarily.

No. But I'll repeat my earlier post....

Germany may have had conscription as a desperate measure towards the end of the war, but the Brits who were extremely short of personnel never did bring in conscription AFAIAA for WWII so I am sceptical of Juncker's claim his father 'was forced to join the Wehrmacht'.

OK maybe he was, but to go on to pass officers exams - if my source was correct that he was an officer (and of course it is not referenced so we do not know - means he committed himself.

You just show how little you know and how much you suck out of your ass.

Not hard to find.

https://www.parliament.uk/about/liv...e-lives/yourcountry/overview/conscriptionww2/

"Conscription: the Second World War
Limited conscription of men
During the spring of 1939 the deteriorating international situation forced the British government under Neville Chamberlain to consider preparations for a possible war against Nazi Germany.

Plans for limited conscription applying to single men aged between 20 and 22 were given parliamentary approval in the Military Training Act in May 1939. This required men to undertake six months’ military training, and some 240,000 registered for service.

Full conscription of men On the day Britain declared war on Germany, 3 September 1939, Parliament immediately passed a more wide-reaching measure. The National Service (Armed Forces) Act imposed conscription on all males aged between 18 and 41 who had to register for service. Those medically unfit were exempted, as were others in key industries and jobs such as baking, farming, medicine, and engineering.
Conscientious objectors had to appear before a tribunal to argue their reasons for refusing to join-up. If their cases were not dismissed, they were granted one of several categories of exemption, and were given non-combatant jobs.

Conscription helped greatly to increase the number of men in active service during the first year of the war.

Conscription of women
In December 1941 Parliament passed a second National Service Act. It widened the scope of conscription still further by making all unmarried women and all childless widows between the ages of 20 and 30 liable to call-up.

Men were now required to do some form of National Service up to the age of 60, which included military service for those under 51. The main reason was that there were not enough men volunteering for police and civilian defence work, or women for the auxiliary units of the armed forces."

It's not rocket science.

 

[fagin]

I shan't because I have never seen Juncker explain anywhere exactly what his father did in the war. All he can come out with was, 'Oh he was forced to join' (=the old 'just obeying orders' line) and turned it around to make his father the victim: claiming that the British press had made his father cry.

Why the hell should he? It's totally irrelevant. Juncker senior has nothing whatsoever to do with the whole Brexit debacle except in what passes for your mind.

 

[Arcade22]

In other words, you think the UK should get to have its cake and eat it too because they threw a hissy fit and threatened to take their ball and go home.

That's a pretty accurate description.

Hm, I have my pen, give me that treaty. I'll just add the lines: "December 21, 2018, Amendment pertaining to the Freedom of Movement of people: Freedom of movement into the United Kingdom is limited to a mandatory number of 10 000 people annually. This means that the United Kingdom is given to right to accept no more than 10 000 immigrants from European Union countries annually, if it so desires".
Done.

Again: in real life, and not in your naive fantasies, it would never ever go that far because as soon as you give one member state the right to arbitrarily pick and choose their rights and obligations others will demand the same treatment.

The UK is not so critically important to the EU that it should have its cake and eat it too.

 

[Arcade22]

Russia's President Vladimir Putin has accused the UK and US political classes of "disrespecting" the public by questioning the Brexit referendum and Donald Trump's election.

"They don't want to recognise [Mr Trump's] victory. That's disrespect of voters," he said.

"The same in Britain: Brexit happened, but no-one wants to implement it."

Russia's leader also said British Prime Minister Theresa May has no choice but to follow through with Brexit, as failing to do so would undermine UK democracy.

"She must enact the will of the people, expressed during the referendum," he said. "Or otherwise it is not a referendum at all: doing it over and over again if someone did not like it [the result]. Is it a democracy?"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46630723

Putin said that he "believes" that Russia is a democracy. That alone should disqualify him from ever trying to lecture others about it.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Even so the vast majority would have just served their time as privates. Those dedicated to the cause sat exams to try to better themselves. For example the Leading Aircraftman (LAC) exams to get a foot on the officer ranks of the RAF. So, even if conscripted, those rising in the ranks could be said to be more committed to King and Country than those who spent half their time in the glasshouse or AWOL.

You only got to bean officer in the British forces if you went to the right school or university.
Conscripts almost never got to be officers.
They even created a special rank of 'Sergeant Pilot' so they didn't have to make the conscripted Oiks in to officers to let them be pilots.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

I shan't because I have never seen Juncker explain anywhere exactly what his father did in the war. All he can come out with was, 'Oh he was forced to join' (=the old 'just obeying orders' line) and turned it around to make his father the victim: claiming that the British press had made his father cry.

Coerced conscription for infantry work is not remotely the same as people in the machinery of the death camps claiming adherence to chain of command.

There's not one single bit of this entire smear effort of yours that is reasonable or consistent. I like how not only is your BS expressed in absolute terms, other minutiae of the war that are known and proven facts just get a blithe "well that may have happened or not."

 

[jimbob]

Vixen, your entire line of reasoning is based on a series of false premises that have been pointed out to you.

Accepting all the corrections and doubling down on your claims looks foolish.

 

[GlennB]

Germany may have had conscription as a desperate measure towards the end of the war, but the Brits who were extremely short of personnel never did bring in conscription AFAIAA for WWII so I am sceptical of Juncker's claim his father 'was forced to join the Wehrmacht'.

Wow.


"Full conscription of men. On the day Britain declared war on Germany, 3 September 1939, Parliament immediately passed a more wide-reaching measure. The National Service (Armed Forces) Act imposed conscription on all males aged between 18 and 41 who had to register for service."

 

[GlennB]

So in other words, those aged under 20 signed up voluntarily.

Wow. So wrong so often.

"The National Service (Armed Forces) Act imposed conscription on all males aged between 18 and 41 who had to register for service. "

(same source, and ninja'd by Captain_Swoop and fagin. Must read to end of thread before sounding off at Vixen's mindless jibbering)

 

[3point14]

Hm, I have my pen, give me that treaty. I'll just add the lines: "December 21, 2018, Amendment pertaining to the Freedom of Movement of people: Freedom of movement into the United Kingdom is limited to a mandatory number of 10 000 people annually. This means that the United Kingdom is given to right to accept no more than 10 000 immigrants from European Union countries annually, if it so desires".
Done.

What in the name of seven hells does he know about democracy?

 

[Lothian]

Any chance of taking the WWII comments elsewhere?

 

[Strawberry]

I shan't because I have never seen Juncker explain anywhere exactly what his father did in the war. All he can come out with was, 'Oh he was forced to join' (=the old 'just obeying orders' line) and turned it around to make his father the victim: claiming that the British press had made his father cry.

His father was a victim. His country was invaded by the Third Reich, he was forced to join the invader's army and packed off to the hell of the Eastern Front where he was seriously injured. And then at the age of 90 he learns that the poisonous tabloid press in Britain were accusing him of being a Nazi, no wonder he cried.

As for you, I have to agree with P.J. Denyer - if I knew someone like you in real life I wouldn't want anything to do with you.

 

[Dave Rogers]

Hey Dave, when you have finished teaching your late cat about the Battle of Britain and why a plane without the range to reach the UK wouldn't have been a threat to the RAF over Britain, maybe Pickle could branch out into the Brexit discussion?

Being a dead cat, I'm afraid he's over-qualified.

Dave

 

[Dave Rogers]

And he rose up to become an officer from what I read.

Perhaps you could tell us where you read this. If it was the same place that you read he was in the SS, then we can immediately discount it on the basis that it's clearly not true because he wasn't in the SS so he can't have been an SS officer.

Dave

 

[3point14]

I read somewhere that Juncker's father had been an SS-Officer and I took it in good faith. I am willing to accept that this might just have been a smear by the writer of the piece. It certainly is not my concoction.

This is a great courtroom tactic, but I don't know why you'd use it here. You know what you said previously was unsupportable, but you thought you'd get it out there again, just to poison the well.

Don't do that.

 

[3point14]

I shan't because I have never seen Juncker explain anywhere exactly what his father did in the war. All he can come out with was, 'Oh he was forced to join' (=the old 'just obeying orders' line) and turned it around to make his father the victim: claiming that the British press had made his father cry.

I've never seen you explain, or support, what your father, grandfather or great grandfather did in any war.

Does that mean I'm at liberty to just make **** up about them? Or about you? I've not seen you deny that you are, or supply any supporting evidence that you're not a screaming nazi racist.

This critical thinking thing escapes you, doesn't it?

 

[Tolls]

So now you're going to tell me what my name is and how it's spelled? Really? Or do you think that I militantly argue against the existence of two part trousered sleepware?

To be honest I thought you might be denying the currently "resting" half a a popular TV presenting duo.

Germany may have had conscription as a desperate measure towards the end of the war...

Germany introduced conscription in 1935, some 10 years before the end of the war.
You really take being wrong to the extreme, don't you?

Just to add, by 1942 the age was dropped to 18, and 17 the following year, finally to 16 (the Volksturm) in 1945. Though even younger were handed a panzerfaust, usually Hitler Youth, come the final weeks.

Russia's President Vladimir Putin has accused the UK and US political classes of "disrespecting" the public by questioning the Brexit referendum and Donald Trump's election.

Surely someone will point out that if Vlad thinks Brexit is a Good Idea then maybe we should think twice about it.

Any chance of taking the WWII comments elsewhere?

Fair point.
I'll try and restrain myself from replying to Vixens nonsense.

 

[Wudang]

Not my problem if your understanding is limited.

I know you barely skim what others post but try:
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/fellow

It gives exactly one meaning for fellow as an adjective

ADJECTIVE
attributive Sharing a particular activity, quality, or condition with someone or something.

‘they urged the troops not to fire on their fellow citizens’

Further example sentences are available.

 

[Pixel42]

I'll try and restrain myself from replying to Vixens nonsense.

Likewise. Someone who thinks she has a better understanding of the meaning of a common English adjective than the compilers of dictionaries cannot be engaged in rational discussion.

 

[Parsman]

Putin sticking up for democracy??? I feel a "Scanners" moment coming on. And as for this "respecting the results of the referendum" thing... if that was the case why do we have elections in democracies every so often? After all the people made their minds up once, why would they change them?