Cont: Brexit: Now What? Part 5

[fagin]

Can't you read?

I just want to pay all VAT/duties at the same time as I pay for shipping, and have the shipping company transfer the money for me. The big shipping companies in China, USA, and so on must be shipping millions of pounds of stuff to the UK each week, so there are potential big economies in scale for them to collect all the duties and forward them on to HMRC or whoever as bulk payments.

No doubt you'll say that such a system would be too complex, whereas the current postcard-driven system is a paragon of simplicity.

Why should Chinese companies want to faff with HMRC for your little bit of tat?

 

[Information Analyst]

Can't you read?

I just want to pay all VAT/duties at the same time as I pay for shipping, and have the shipping company transfer the money for me. The big shipping companies in China, USA, and so on must be shipping millions of pounds of stuff to the UK each week, so there are potential big economies in scale for them to collect all the duties and forward them on to HMRC or whoever as bulk payments.

No doubt you'll say that such a system would be too complex, whereas the current postcard-driven system is a paragon of simplicity.

Yes, it is possible, and Pitney-Bowes offers such a service in the United States, but it relies on sellers signing up to it. It also still costs more than simply being able to pay the VAT direct to HMRC, because it involves sellers sending the items to Pitney-Bowes, who then check them and send them on to the UK. Obviously this incurs two lots of shipping - internal US, then international to the UK - which in some cases can make it more expensive that sending it direct via - at this end - Royal Mail. Very few retailers are interested in complying with HMRC/VAT regulations direct. The only exception are retailers in the Channel Islands, after the LVRC crack-down.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Why should Chinese companies want to faff with HMRC for your little bit of tat?

Well I'm sure it could be done if the scale of things was large enough in a place like China. After all it would be the Chinese Government ultimately running it. I believe for example that's why you can get all the Ebay tat with free shipping from China - because the government has agreed a deal to foot the bill to encourage Chinese exports.

I doubt they would do it solely on a UK basis... maybe if we clubbed together in some kind of joint deal with other countries we could achieve it?

Maybe we should consider joining the European Union?

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Can't you read?

I just want to pay all VAT/duties at the same time as I pay for shipping, and have the shipping company transfer the money for me. The big shipping companies in China, USA, and so on must be shipping millions of pounds of stuff to the UK each week, so there are potential big economies in scale for them to collect all the duties and forward them on to HMRC or whoever as bulk payments.

No doubt you'll say that such a system would be too complex, whereas the current postcard-driven system is a paragon of simplicity.

I would imagine there is zero incentive to do this for most suppliers exporting goods - if VAT, duties and fees were factored into their pricing then apparent savings would probably disappear and a lot of people would simply not bother with the hassle. A lot of the buyers would complain also as they would rather take the chance of it getting through customs unfettered.

On small value items anyway I think it wouldn't be very popular for anyone. Most sellers would rather push the cost and hassle out and most buyers would rather accept the slight hassle than pay more.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

This is good:
Brexiteer MP: ‘Everyone in England is entitled to an Irish passport’

He's a member of the European Research Group, chaired by Mogg.

Just read the article and immediately wondered what, if any, impact there would be from Brexit on Ireland offering passports to Northern Irish folks?

It would seem odd to me that an EU country could offer EU passports to one part of a non-EU country but I guess it's entirely possible. Any parallel situations exist?

 

[GnaGnaMan]

Just read the article and immediately wondered what, if any, impact there would be from Brexit on Ireland offering passports to Northern Irish folks?

It would seem odd to me that an EU country could offer EU passports to one part of a non-EU country but I guess it's entirely possible. Any parallel situations exist?

East Germany comes to mind.

Many (most?) european nations take a rather ethnic view of citizenship. Given that it's recognized that northern Irish can be ethnicly Irish, there is nothing odd about them being entitled to Irish citizenship.

WP has this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citiz...on#Summary_of_member_states'_nationality_laws

 

[catsmate]

I thought the UK was supposed to get a super deal that allowed them all the benefits of being in the single market without any of the responsibilities?

A fantasy that dies hard with Brexiteers.

 

[catsmate]

This is good:
Brexiteer MP: ‘Everyone in England is entitled to an Irish passport’

He's a member of the European Research Group, chaired by Mogg.

It's important to keep the dummies together, easier to supervise.

 

[Wudang]

Just read the article and immediately wondered what, if any, impact there would be from Brexit on Ireland offering passports to Northern Irish folks?

It would seem odd to me that an EU country could offer EU passports to one part of a non-EU country but I guess it's entirely possible. Any parallel situations exist?

From here

Born in Ireland
If you were born on the island of Ireland before 1 January 2005, you are entitled to be an Irish citizen.

Irish citizen parents
If you were born in Ireland after 1 January 2005 and your parent(s) were Irish citizens, then you are also an Irish citizen.

emphasis added

 

[Andy_Ross]

Can't you read?

I just want to pay all VAT/duties at the same time as I pay for shipping, and have the shipping company transfer the money for me. The big shipping companies in China, USA, and so on must be shipping millions of pounds of stuff to the UK each week, so there are potential big economies in scale for them to collect all the duties and forward them on to HMRC or whoever as bulk payments.

No doubt you'll say that such a system would be too complex, whereas the current postcard-driven system is a paragon of simplicity.

As the importer it's your responsibility.

 

[Darat]

As the importer it's your responsibility.

But once we get free of the shackles of the EU we will be able to make those damned foreigners do all the work, as it should be!

 

[Tolls]

But once we get free of the shackles of the EU we will be able to make those damned foreigners do all the work, as it should be!

This is alarmingly similar to the whole Trump Wall thing...

 

[Darat]

Que

This is alarmingly similar to the whole Trump Wall thing...

If there is one ally we can rely on to support our brave new vision it is Donald Trump, we can be sure he will ensure that we will have a trade deal that will be win-win. For Donald. Sure we may have to give Regents Park over to being an exclusive 5 star* golf club but he will no doubt offer the Queen a great discount or at least one comp meal**


*As accredited by Trump Tourism Inc.
**table d'hôte only, wine not included, 25% service charge applies

 

[ceptimus]

So you want systems in place in every US and ROW retailer so they deal with all the duties and taxes. That would cost those business money and would mean increasing prices for many. Large cos already do this, where the EU is a big enough market. Small ones it is not worth their while. They can keep prices lower by leaving it to the customer. Post brexit you are more likely to see more have the customer pay the cost, if we move away from the EU system as hard brexiteers want. Should every UK supplier sort out the import docs and duties for sales to Chad? Or does it depend on their sales whether they do this? We will be a smaller unique customs area post hard brexit. Some sellers to the EU will think it not worth it to pay for a new system. No business will be more likely to sort out the paperwork for a smaller market.

Beat the rush. Order a new cheque book now!

Obviously depends on the size of the market. Yes, shipping companies should offer the service for big markets like the UK or the US, but most likely not for Chad.

 

[Henri McPhee]

Important countries have an industrial base.

 

[ceptimus]

As the importer it's your responsibility.

IT still would be. The shipping agent in Hong Kong or whatever would merely be acting as a middleman - in just the same way that Parcel Farce with their quaint postcards do now. The shipping agent would collect the VAT, forward it to HMRC, and mark the individual parcel or the shipping container containing thousands of such parcels or whatever 'VAT paid' - maybe with some hologram sticker or something if it's decided that is required.

If the authorities ever detected a shipping agent cheating, then they could target and stop any parcels sent by that agent until the bills had been paid.

It would be less hassle for buyers, less work for the customs officers here, and HMRC would collect the VAT on all imported parcels using this system - not just the ones they catch with the present system.

In my experience the present system is something of a lottery and I often used to receive even parcels containing expensive items (and sometimes marked as such) without having to pay VAT or handling charges - though I was occasionally hit by the VAT plus handling fee hassle. Now I choose not to undergo that hassle (by using the system that goes via Germany for more expensive items) I pay the VAT every time - so I actually pay more than previously - but it's worth it to avoid the hassle and delay caused by the antiquated postcard system.

 

[ceptimus]

It would be better to rename VAT or at least call it something different when applied to imports, as there isn't any intrinsic value added to an item just by moving it from one country to another.

 

[jimbob]

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1051411763680473090.html

Here's the truth about Brexit, the "punishment" some people claim the EU wants to inflict on us, the full horrific consequences of no deal, and the dangers lurking behind any deal we reach. Buckle in, it's pretty long. Better to be thorough than to leave anything out. 1/47
To leave the EU, we are following the rules laid down in Article 50. A50 is a short, simple document that explains how a country can choose to leave the EU. (The UK was fully involved with producing A50. Indeed, a Brit - Lord Kerr - even drafted it!) 2/47
lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/the-lisbon…
As EU members, we currently benefit from over 750 international treaties. Some allow us to trade freely with the EU and 40+ non-EU countries. Others cover a host of other issues, from air worthiness to drivers licenses, UK & EU citizens rights, food safety, etc. 3/47

There looks lots of scope for free trade with Russia, Libya, Cuba and Burma.

 

[Lothian]

Obviously depends on the size of the market. Yes, shipping companies should offer the service for big markets like the UK or the US, but most likely not for Chad.

If they don't currently offer it to the EU you are delusional if you think they will offer it to the UK once separate.

 

[Lothian]

It would be better to rename VAT or at least call it something different when applied to imports, as there isn't any intrinsic value added to an item just by moving it from one country to another.

Good idea.
How about calling it Tax on imported goods and services to stop domestic companies being undercut by twenty percent by foreign companies who do not pay VAT.
Or
Toigastsdcbubtpbfcwdnpv for short.

No end to the great new Ideas from brexiteers.