Cont: Brexit: Now What? Part 5

Status
Not open for further replies.
ceptimus said:
If the EU decide to act like children and require UK citizens to obtain an international driver's license to drive there, then the UK would retaliate by requiring EU citizens to obtain same to drive here - but only EU citizens - visitors from the USA and elsewhere still wouldn't need one.
Click to expand...
You keep painting the EU as acting like children when in reality all that is being described is the current arrangements for those countries that are not part of the EU and don't have an agreement with the EU. Arrangements that we in the UK currently apply to non EU countries without an EU agreement.

You appear to think that the benefits arising from EU membership should be the default position going forward. For UK commitments you think the default should be their removal.

If you are looking for childlike behavior, wanting all latest toys without appreciating that they need to be paid for, you might want to look a little closer to home,
 
Aber said:
Solution for UK residents is the International Driving Permit, available over the counter at Post Offices in 5 minutes for £5.50.

IIRC UK has said it will continue to recognise EU driving licences.

'Problems' slightly overstates the current position, I'd go with 'mild inconvenience'.

And the actual Government paper:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/driving-in-the-eu-if-theres-no-brexit-deal/driving-in-the-eu-if-theres-no-brexit-deal
Click to expand...
I agree. No big deal but if you add up all these extra niggles, the time taken/delays and extra costs it gives individuals post-brexit a real cost, that realistically is not going to be compensated. We will be worse off, (for 50 years in Rees-Mogg's estimate)
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
Is there a time limit on how long you can use the IDP? I know it lasts 12 months but can you renew indefinitely?
Click to expand...

According to the link in my post:;)

The 1968 convention IDP is valid for 3 years, or for however long your driving licence is valid, if that date is earlier.

After 28 March 2019, a UK issued 1968 convention IDP would be recognised in all other EU countries, plus Norway and Switzerland.
Click to expand...
 
And in other news Gina Miller has launched her manifesto Remain Plus:https://endthechaos.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Remain_Plus_Document.pdf

designed to appeal widely :D

Immigration in a Reformed EU – no open borders, no free ride, no mass migration

v Leading the Europe change - new leaders in France and Italy want a tough stance on illegal immigration, by staying in the EU, Britain can lead this and make sure it happens

v Use existing powers to restrict movement - Open borders have always been a choice – we can take a tough approach to immigrants like they do in Belgium:
v All EU immigrants will have to register
v No benefits for the first four years
v If they can’t find a job in 6 months, they have to go home
v We only get the immigrants who work hard, like nurses for the NHS -

We have always had control of our borders, but now we will have the money to keep out people we don’t want – the Remain Dividend and sacking BrexitBureaucrats means more Border Staff -

We can insure the EU has a tough policy on asylum seekers and only lets in people in genuine need, so no mass migration
Click to expand...

The Belgian example skates over the changes necessary in the UK to match their rules, like registration of all UK residents and restrictions on benefits for young people, and ECJ issues on those without a job.
 
Sounds quite similar to what Cameron was asking for when he tried to negotiate 'reforms' so that he could then back "remaining in a reformed EU". The EU offered him practically nothing, but maybe now that Brexit is a reality they'll be prepared to be slightly more reasonable.
 
Lothian said:
You appear to think that the benefits arising from EU membership should be the default position going forward.
Click to expand...


If the thing under discussion benefits both sides, then it's stupid to argue that the benefit "arises from EU membership". Only the childish EU would argue, "Yes, such-and-such an agreement would benefit us as well as you - but we're not going to do it anyway because we want to punish you for daring to leave".
 
After Brexit, Europeans will still be permitted to drive in Britain but they'll be required to try to drive on their own side of the road. It's the only way they'll learn how foolish and wrong they are. It's the Will of the People.
 
Wudang said:
I recall surveys reporting that a large percentage of Leave voters thought EU citizens should not be able to work in the UK but UK citizens should be allowed to work anywhere.
Click to expand...

It was more the case that a majority thought that Brits should still have free movement in the EU, and a majority thougth that EU citizens should not have free movement to the UK. Obviously two majorities on the same survey meant that there was overlap who thought both at the same time.
 
ceptimus said:
If the thing under discussion benefits both sides, then it's stupid to argue that the benefit "arises from EU membership". Only the childish EU would argue, "Yes, such-and-such an agreement would benefit us as well as you - but we're not going to do it anyway because we want to punish you for daring to leave".
Click to expand...

You sound like the ex-boyfriend who thinks he still entitled to shag his ex-girlfriend "for old times' sake."
 
ceptimus said:
If the thing under discussion benefits both sides, then it's stupid to argue that the benefit "arises from EU membership". Only the childish EU would argue, "Yes, such-and-such an agreement would benefit us as well as you - but we're not going to do it anyway because we want to punish you for daring to leave".
Click to expand...
The benefit arises from the formal agreement allowing it, not just from an argument it benefits both sides. Benefit is not straight forward. The UK Post office will benefit from UK driving licence holders seeking an additional piece of paper to drive in the EU.

If one side decides to unilaterally withdraw from an agreement then then it is not punishment to point out that the agreement's benefits no longer apply and a new agreement will be needed to reinstate them. You continually struggle to understand this.

If you give up your golf club membership you can still play the course if the club agrees however the club is likely to make you pay a premium fee for the round and limit the times you can play to one when the members are not using the course. This is about the club being set up to serve its members and give them preferential deals. It is not about not punishing those who resign their membership. Do Manchester united punish their fans who are not official supporter's club members by giving members priority over tickets? If a member of the supporters club resigns is he punished by not being able to get a ticket?
 
Last edited:
Again with the golf club analogy. The EU is not a golf club, though it is mostly run by old rich white men.


If you leave a golf club, you're not expected to continue paying the pensions of the bar staff and other employees.
 
ceptimus said:
Again with the golf club analogy. The EU is not a golf club, though it is mostly run by old rich white men.


If you leave a golf club, you're not expected to continue paying the pensions of the bar staff and other employees.
Click to expand...
You do need to carry on paying monthly subs for as long as the contract said even if you no longer want to be a member.. What the club puts that money towards is entirely up to them.
We voted on and agreed to projects in the EU we promised to pay for.
 
Wudang said:
I'd love to see Nigel Farage arguing against the EU paying his MEP's pension. I won't hold my breath.
Click to expand...
Of course the EU should pay agreed pensions where they are contractually obliged so to do.

But once the UK is no longer part of the EU, it's ridiculous to assert that the UK should contribute to the EU's budget. Pensions paid by the EU should come from the EU's budget - not from contributions by ex member countries.

Once the UK is no longer part of the EU, Farage will no longer be an MEP. As with any other ex-MEP, his pension should be derived from the time he spent serving - and the UK will have paid its share* of his pension pot throughout that time.

*Much more than its share actually, given that the UK has been one of the largest contributors of EU funds throughout its time of membership.
 
Lothian said:
You do need to carry on paying monthly subs for as long as the contract said even if you no longer want to be a member.. What the club puts that money towards is entirely up to them.
We voted on and agreed to projects in the EU we promised to pay for.
Click to expand...
Most golf clubs have a yearly subscription. If you don't renew your membership at the end of a year, you don't pay them a penny afterwards - and there is no need to give any notice period that you intend to leave: you simply don't pay your subs for the next year and you're done.

In contrast, the UK has already given the EU two years notice that it's leaving - and has continued to pay its subscription throughout that time.

Once again, the golf club analogy is shown to be ludicrous. I wonder why you persist in trotting it out.
 
ceptimus said:
Most golf clubs have a yearly subscription. If you don't renew your membership at the end of a year, you don't pay them a penny afterwards - and there is no need to give any notice period that you intend to leave: you simply don't pay your subs for the next year and you're done.

In contrast, the UK has already given the EU two years notice that it's leaving - and has continued to pay its subscription throughout that time.
Click to expand...


Hasn't the UK been enjoying the benefits of membership in the EU for those two years? They haven't actually left yet, after all.

Once again, the golf club analogy is shown to be ludicrous. I wonder why you persist in trotting it out.
Click to expand...


It continues to be one of the more apt and pertinent analogies that we see relating to the Brexit mess. Why give it up?

Just because it shows so clearly how ludicrous your arguments have been? That's not a good enough reason.
 
ceptimus said:
Most golf clubs have a yearly subscription. If you don't renew your membership at the end of a year, you don't pay them a penny afterwards - and there is no need to give any notice period that you intend to leave: you simply don't pay your subs for the next year and you're done.

In contrast, the UK has already given the EU two years notice that it's leaving - and has continued to pay its subscription throughout that time.
Click to expand...
The EU has funding cycles the current one ends in 2020. We are leaving in the middle of that. If we were leaving at the end it would be different. The amount agreed to date was also on the understanding that despite leaving we would continue to get the membership benefits throughout the 2 year transition period.
Once again, the golf club analogy is shown to be ludicrous. I wonder why you persist in trotting it out.
Click to expand...
No it holds good. It is trotted out as it is apt and shows up the stupidity of the leave arguments in an easily understandable way.
 
ceptimus said:
Of course the EU should pay agreed pensions where they are contractually obliged so to do.

But once the UK is no longer part of the EU, it's ridiculous to assert that the UK should contribute to the EU's budget.
Click to expand...
Wow, such blatant hypocrisy.
 
ceptimus said:
Again with the golf club analogy. The EU is not a golf club, though it is mostly run by old rich white men.


If you leave a golf club, you're not expected to continue paying the pensions of the bar staff and other employees.
Click to expand...

And you are also not expected to rock up and play a round whenever you like either.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom