Cont: Brexit: Now What? Part 5

Status
Not open for further replies.
GnaGnaMan said:
Some brexiteers say that they voted to take back control or souvereignty. How does extraditing UK subjects on the mere request of a foreign police force fit with being a fully souvereign nation?
Click to expand...

I'm sure Brexiteers believe they can negotiate a deal that only involves the UK being able to demand the arrest of people in EU states and not vice versa. It would be in keeping with everything else that's been promised from Brexit.

Dave
 
ceptimus said:
Don't you understand the concept of mutual benefit? We're offering the EU the option of benefitting from our expertise in crime fighting and anti-terror, but they're too petulant to accept.
Click to expand...
No, if i understand what you want correctly we are offering the EU the option of benefiting from our expertise in crime fighting and anti-terror, and in return they:

  • Give us the benefit of their expertise in crime fighting and anti-terror,
  • Give up on the EAW.
  • Enter a new EU/UK agreement to run parallel to the EUAW
  • Lose the ability to quickly react to events or change the terms under the normal streamlined process as it is now an external as opposed to an internal agreement.
  • They also need to accept that all decisions relating to the UK information exchanges, suspect deportations etc will be subject to UK law as opposed the ECJ.
    The ECJ can still make decisions but it will be subservient to all levels of the UK courts same with any disputes with the agreement itself.

Good luck, I see the benefit to the UK, the EU not so much.
 
Last edited:
The Don said:
As any fule kno, young crumpets are called pikelets.

Carbon Dioxide is used to provide an inert atmosphere inside packaging to retard spoilage.
Click to expand...

Why nor use nitrogen? it is inert, isn't a greenhouse gas and is a byproduct of oxygen production.
 
ceptimus said:
We don't want to leave the European Arrest Warrant. It's the EU in the shape of Michael Barnier that is threatening to kick us out and make everyone less safe. Understandable that he thinks threats to the UK are more important right now than the safety of EU citizens.
Click to expand...

I thought you were pushing the 'out means out' option?

I see I was mistaken, you want 'out means out' apart from the bits we want to stay in?
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Why nor use nitrogen? it is inert, isn't a greenhouse gas and is a byproduct of oxygen production.
Click to expand...

Dunno, it usually comes down to cost and/or convenience.

This price list for industrial gases seems to indicate that nitrogen is more expensive and if the plant already has other uses for Carbon Dioxide then they may already have facilities for, and experience with using it.

https://www.boconline.co.uk/interne...industrial-gas-price-list-Jan18410_450923.pdf
 
BBC News: Reality Check - The Brexit challenge for Irish trade

"The future of the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland is proving to be a massive challenge in the Brexit negotiations, and talk of "no deal" is making a lot of people nervous.

But it's not just in the UK that this matters, because the Republic of Ireland depends on trade with the United Kingdom for its economic well-being.

There's been a lot of talk about north-south trade across the border with Northern Ireland, and the need to avoid any border checks.

But in purely economic terms, east-west trade across the Irish Sea between Ireland and Great Britain is far more important.

The vast majority of freight traffic leaving the Republic of Ireland is exported from Dublin, with the busiest routes to ports such as Liverpool and Holyhead."
 
Information Analyst said:
BBC News: Reality Check - The Brexit challenge for Irish trade

"The future of the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland is proving to be a massive challenge in the Brexit negotiations, and talk of "no deal" is making a lot of people nervous.

But it's not just in the UK that this matters, because the Republic of Ireland depends on trade with the United Kingdom for its economic well-being.

There's been a lot of talk about north-south trade across the border with Northern Ireland, and the need to avoid any border checks.

But in purely economic terms, east-west trade across the Irish Sea between Ireland and Great Britain is far more important.

The vast majority of freight traffic leaving the Republic of Ireland is exported from Dublin, with the busiest routes to ports such as Liverpool and Holyhead."
Click to expand...

That's just more evidence that the BBC is a government mouth piece and not a reliable broadcaster.

Reality check back - Project Fear will not work. The UK government has three options to choose from...

1) Stay in the Single Market
2) Have a Canada style FTA
3) No deal and trade on WTO rules.

It doesn't matter how much they threaten Ireland's economy or other countries' security, there isn't going to be a magical fourth option which allows Britain to cherry pick bits of the SM. Time for May to show some leadership and make a choice.
 
Letter in the FT on costs of customs reporting etc on trade:

We are a 95 per cent export manufacturer of high tech instrumentation, so we have a lot of experience in overseas trade. On May 24 the head of HM Revenue & Customs estimated that post-Brexit, import-export may cost industry £20bn extra at UK borders. With £10m of exports, 75 per cent outside the EU, and £1.5m of imports, 85% non-EU, we are in a good position to give a realistic figure for these costs.

All imports enter under Inward Processing Relief, and no taxes are paid at the border. Goods may remain in the UK for up to nine months free of duty and value added tax. Duty and VAT become payable if the goods are sold within the EU, but not if they are exported outside. When we sell our equipment to a Japanese company, we invoice free of VAT as an export. It collects ex-works and delivers worldwide, sometimes direct to a customer within the EU. It will invoice without VAT as, being based in Japan, it is not VAT registered. It is that company’s customer who must record and pay VAT, on the basis that it is an import even though the goods may have crossed no frontiers.

Our VAT and tax returns are made on a monthly and quarterly basis, with payment by direct debit. Every two to three years, HMRC audits our record-keeping. Maintaining this system requires a skilled person for one or two days a week — at a £50 hourly rate for 500 hours per year, the annual cost is £25,000. We also employ shipping agents at a £70,000 annual cost, of which over 90 per cent is transport charges. Our cost for import-export paperwork is about £32,000.

Our largest tax is the 20 per cent VAT charged on importing goods from the EU, just as from the US or Japan. This will not change after Brexit, although there may be a 3-5 per cent duty if no deal is done. The cost in additional paperwork will therefore be no more than 10 per cent of the present £32,000. We will incur an average 4 per cent duty on our £225,000 of EU imports, but will recover 95 per cent of this on exporting, so duties will cost the company about £500. Assuming we do business with the EU on terms no worse than the rest of the world, the cost will be around £3,700, or 0.04 per cent of our £10m turnover. Compared to currency exposure where rates can change by 1 per cent daily, this is a negligible figure, so Brexit on any terms will not change our business.

Jeremy Good
Director, Cryogenic Ltd, London W3, UK
Click to expand...
 
Planigale said:
Analogies are all limited. What happens when you leave a club depends on the club rules. You may get your membership fee back less the period you were a member for. Some clubs you could sell your membership to eligible persons who wished to join; you might actually turn a profit. What is the case here is that there are no club rules for leaving; they have to be agreed. Unlike most golf clubs this club says you can't play with / be a member of other clubs (except when playing as part of the EU golf club team).

A better analogy might be of a co-op club where each member brings their own holes. The UK gets to take away one of the holes. (A really great hole, one of the best holes ever, a Dodgson-Hawking hole.) The rest of the members can still play, but with one less hole. If they want to play the same rounds as before they need to negotiate a deal. No I don't want to be a member of your club; you can decide who joins what the fees are, what you wear. But if your 17 members want to play with my hole then I need to be allowed to play with your holes. There are also other clubs next to me, and I want to play with their holes and I don't want your permission for other people to play with my hole. (Please improve the analogy with appropriate use of terms such as wood, putting, balls etc.)
Click to expand...


Like I said, I don't think it's an analogy. (Excluding golf references, of course.) The EU is a club. It's really that simple.

It may not be a 'simple' club, but that isn't relevant. Countries join it, voluntarily, with the approval of other members of the club. There are club rules and by-laws, club benefits, and club expenses. Club members accept contractual obligations with the membership agreement, and can undertake later ones which may or may not be a matter of individual choice.

And they can quit when they choose too, although that may not relieve them of each and every contractual obligation which they have undertaken while still members. Those do not have to be dependent on their continued membership.

Just like pretty much any other club, golf or otherwise.
 
The Don said:
I've been convinced since day 1 of Theresa May's premiership that that is where we are inevitably heading - a hard, likely no deal, Brexit with all the pain that involves. It's the only way to engage the Dunkirk SpiritTM and allows everything to be blamed on the intransigence of the EU.

Why else would they work so hard to prevent parliament having a meaningful say in the event of a no-deal Brexit unless that's what they expected would happen ?
Click to expand...


Retreat? Is that what Brexit is doing?
 
The Don said:
I've been convinced since day 1 of Theresa May's premiership that that is where we are inevitably heading - a hard, likely no deal, Brexit with all the pain that involves. It's the only way to engage the Dunkirk SpiritTM and allows everything to be blamed on the intransigence of the EU.

Why else would they work so hard to prevent parliament having a meaningful say in the event of a no-deal Brexit unless that's what they expected would happen ?
Click to expand...

Well, it's a logical consequence of the UK's red lines.

Brexit staircase.jpeg

I guess that peace in Northern Ireland and a break up of the UK - with Scotland leaving is a price worth paying for the untrammelled power of leadership of the Conservative party and Prime minister of England and Wales.

I'm ignoring the economic impact, as obviously being marginally regrettable, but not ideologically important.
 
The Don said:
I've been convinced since day 1 of Theresa May's premiership that that is where we are inevitably heading - a hard, likely no deal, Brexit with all the pain that involves.
Click to expand...
That might have been likely but for the Ireland border. I tend to think this makes the likely outcome the opposite.

Why else would they work so hard to prevent parliament having a meaningful say in the event of a no-deal Brexit unless that's what they expected would happen ?
Click to expand...
May does actually have a point about this. Setting aside any preference on "type of brexit", she has substantially reduced bargaining power in the arena if it is known by all that she can not actually bind the UK into her negotiating strategy.

(I think there is actually very little negotiating power on either side anyway, for the Ireland border reason above)
 
You KNOw I have not seen any good reason for brexit from it's advocates here.
I think the REAL reaon it "I Don't Like Foreigners".
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom