Cont: Brexit: Now What? 9 Below Zero

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ceptimus said:
If you think a trade deal between different sized countries is harmful to the smaller country, why do you think the smaller country would ever sign up to such a deal? If the deal is worse than no deal for either side, then it's obvious that the deal will never be signed.

A trade deal will only ever be completed when both sides agree that it benefits both sides.
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Yes but the extent it benefits both sides is the key question.
We were told that looking at all our trade deals we would be better off. We would retain the great free trade deal we have with the EU without having to contribute and we would get better trade deals with the rest of the world.

Once transition is over we will no longer benefit from the EU's trade agreements and we will see how many of the new deals are better than the ones the EU has and to be blunt whether we get access to more markets and make more exports than we give away access to ours and get more imports.
For UK plc, the economy and jobs we want to post Brexit to have s better balance of trade.
 
ceptimus said:
So you think the UK will willingly sign up to a deal that is worse for the UK than no deal?
Why on earth would they do that? It makes no sense whatsoever, regardless of what "people are saying."

Who are these "people"? Perhaps they're the usual biased remain fanatics?
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Again that is not what anyone in this thread has said.
 
ceptimus said:
Just like the EU only wanting trade deals that benefit the EU.

It was always thus. The trick to negotiating trade deals is to find the things that benefit both sides.
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And now the UK will be screwed by both.
 
ceptimus said:
If you think a trade deal between different sized countries is harmful to the smaller country, why do you think the smaller country would ever sign up to such a deal? I
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Desperation? Stupidity? You know, Brexiteer things...
 
Because, contrary to Brexiter slogans a year ago, a bad deal is better than no deal in many cases.
 
Ian Osborne said:
We wouldn't. But do you honestly think we can get any deal that's as good as the EU deal we enjoy now?
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To be fair the EU trades with the US on pretty poor terms. We may well be able to increase our sales to the US by negotiating a new trade deal. That may lead to more UK jobs.
The question is whether the cost of that access would be the loss of british jobs by allowing US suppliers into our markets.

There is also the cost of lost UK jobs by no longer having easy access to the EU markets and it's trade deals. That in turn may create oppertunities for a UK supplier to replace an EU one. We have managed to roll over some of the smaller EU trade deals but have yet to improve on any of them.

Overall there will be swings and roundabouts. The general consensus is that the UK will be worse off. While some industries may do better others will struggle and it will take 50 years for us to recover.
 
Ian Osborne said:
We wouldn't. But do you honestly think we can get any deal that's as good as the EU deal we enjoy now?
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Of course I I don't expect a trade deal between the UK and the EU to be as "good" or as comprehensive as being inside the EU - the EU is determined that cannot be the case lest they see the rapid departure of other EU member countries. But you have to factor in the cost to the UK of being in the EU - when the net payments by the UK to the EU (the cost of membership) are taken into account, then the existing "free" deal is nowhere near free.

And you have to consider that being in the EU means the UK has to pay EU prices for things like fruit that could be purchased more cheaply on the open world market. The EU imposes tariffs on the imports of fruit to protect Spanish, Greek, and Italian farmers who can't compete with other non-EU countries for cost of production.

What is the existing trade deal between the USA and the EU and when was it implemented?
 
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ceptimus said:
Of course I I don't expect a trade deal between the UK and the EU to be as "good" or as comprehensive as being inside the EU
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You misunderstand. What I'm asking is do you expect a deal the UK can forge with the USA to be as good as the one the EU has with the USA, and the UK currently enjoys because it is part of the EU?
 
Ian Osborne said:
You misunderstand. What I'm asking is do you expect a deal the UK can forge with the USA to be as good as the one the EU has with the USA, and the UK currently enjoys because it is part of the EU?
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Please provide a link for an article that describes the existing trade deal between the EU and USA, and says when it was implemented.
 
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ceptimus said:
Please provide a link for an article that describes the existing trade deal between the EU and USA, and says when it was implemented.
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Don't know why you can't Google but there are a number of trade agreements that the US and EU have signed up to. Some involve only the EU and US others include other nations as well.

EU–US Open Skies Agreement 2007
Transatlantic Economic Council 2007
Roadmap Transatlantic Cooperation eHealth IT 2010
Agreement on mutual acceptance of results of conformity assessment 2018
WTO 1995
 
ceptimus said:
Please provide a link for an article that describes the existing trade deal between the EU and USA, and says when it was implemented.
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You’ve been supporting Brexit all this time without knowing what the current situation is?
 
Mojo said:
You’ve been supporting Brexit all this time without knowing what the current situation is?
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I know exactly what it is. I was attempting to get Ian Osborne to do some research and realize that the USA and EU don't currently have a comprehensive "trade agreement". Like many remainers he assumed that the EU already has a wonderful trade deal with the USA which the UK could never expect to equal by itself. The reverse is the truth. The EU has no comprehensive trade agreement with the USA, and the UK, once freed from the EU, can expect to do at least as well, and probably much better.
 
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ceptimus said:
I know exactly what it is. I was attempting to get Ian Osborne to do some research and realize that the USA and EU don't currently have a comprehensive "trade agreement". Like many remainers he assumed that the EU already has a wonderful trade deal with the USA which the UK could never expect to equal by itself. The reverse is the truth. The EU has no comprehensive trade agreement with the USA, and the UK, once freed from the EU, can expect to do at least as well, and probably much better.
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As long as we do what we’re told?
 
ceptimus said:
I know exactly what it is. I was attempting to get Ian Osborne to do some research and realize that the USA and EU don't currently have a comprehensive "trade agreement". Like many remainers he assumed that the EU already has a wonderful trade deal with the USA which the UK could never expect to equal by itself. The reverse is the truth. The EU has no comprehensive trade agreement with the USA, and the UK, once freed from the EU, can expect to do at least as well, and probably much better.
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It is you that needs to do research.
The EU and the US do have a comprehensive trade agreement. Which goods or services do you think are not currently covered by a current EU US trade agreement?
 
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