So obviously now that those who made all those outlandish promises on behalf of the Leave campaign are the government you naturally expect them to deliver £350 million a week for the NHS and a trade deal as good or better than the one we have as members of the EU?
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Cont: Brexit: Now What? 9 Below Zero
- Thread starter Squeegee Beckenheim
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So obviously now that those who made all those outlandish promises on behalf of the Leave campaign are the government you naturally expect them to deliver £350 million a week for the NHS and a trade deal as good or better than the one we have as members of the EU?
Then you need to be taking the likes of Smith, Mogg and Johnson to task for not keeping the manifesto promises they made when they repeatedly voted to keep the UK in the EU.
When did they do that?
Your memory must be going, you've posted about them not voting to leave the EU only a few weeks ago!
So when you say they voted to keep the UK in the EU, you actually meant they voted for the so-called, "Mrs May's EU withdrawal agreement."
So the opposite of what you said. No wonder I didn't understand.
As you know, I didn't think that was a good way to leave the EU. I'm glad it didn't pass and that we now have a chance to leave the EU in a more complete manner.
Actually, I still don't fully understand what you're claiming - as far as I know, Mogg only voted for May's deal once. What did you mean by 'repeatedly'?
So the opposite of what you said. No wonder I didn't understand.
As you know, I didn't think that was a good way to leave the EU. I'm glad it didn't pass and that we now have a chance to leave the EU in a more complete manner.
Actually, I still don't fully understand what you're claiming - as far as I know, Mogg only voted for May's deal once. What did you mean by 'repeatedly'?
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Opposite world must be a wonderful place.
You're not making any sense. Perhaps that's your deliberate intention.
Lothian
should be banned
The referendum was to leave, May's deal was to leave. If you, Boris and other brexiteers can happily betray 17.4 million people you can not complain when others look to do the same.
Did you vote for 'a manner' of leaving the EU? I didn't notice any mentioned on the ballot paper.
This is nonsense and you know it. At the time of the votes it was THE LAW that we would leave on Halloween either with or without a deal. Mogg and others mostly voted against May's deal because they thought no deal was a better way of leaving.
Mogg changed to voting for the deal on the third occasion because, by then he feared that remainers were in the ascendancy and that the choice was between May's deal and no Brexit at all. He has since stated that he now regrets having voted for the deal.
It's clear that Mogg and other ERG members, whether or not they voted for May's deal once, are all committed to leaving the EU. Only an idiot would argue otherwise.
The remainers who voted against the deal - Grieve and his pals - did so because they were opposed to any form of Brexit. Grieve will likely still vote against any deal Boris brings back from next week's summit (if the EU offer one) He is a fanatical remainer and a clear liar and hypocrite for having the gall to stand as a Tory in the 2017 election where their manifesto clearly stated that no deal was a definite possibility.
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SezMe
post-pre-born
That may well be but that does not mean that it should have been so. The Remainers let the Leavers set the terms of the debate, much to their loss.
I think ceptimus is right. I think there should have been three pillars to the debate: social welfare, economic welfare and environmental sustainability. Too bad the Leavers made the second one drown out the other two.
Lothian
should be banned
You are missing the point.
May's deal would have delivered the referendum promise to leave the EU. That leavers opposed it shows us that we can not assume that any particular leave deal has the popular support. We can not say that May's deal is what the public voted for. Similarly we can not say that a hard brexit is what people voted for.
You have shown the referendum can not be relied upon. Thank you for that.
Plus Brexit makes the other two worse by default.
We're left with "soverignty", "standing independently" and other such meaningless phrases.
McHrozni
Ulf Nereng
Muse
Or "taking back control". I have often wondered which EU regulations are supposed to be so bad. Is it such a great idea to have lower standards than EU does? I've only been affected directly by an EU regulation once that I am aware of; when my city council was forced to improve the water supply because it didn't meet EU's minimum standards. It had become undrinkable at times, but now it is fine again. But I'm sure local UK authorites can save a lot of money when they are "back in control"...
Indeed, the question of the bad EU regulations has been raised regularly and whenever an answer is given it invariably turns out to be a partial or complete lie. Boris Johnson recently waved a kipper around declaring that EU regulations forced UK producers to ship them with an ice pack. This was simply untrue, the regulation in question was a UK regulation.
In other cases, such as bendy bananas or not being able to sell bananas singly (or in too large bunches, the story changes), it turns out to be a wilful misinterpretation of the relevant EU legislation.
At least one of the claims that regularly crops up (not being able to call British sausages, sausages because of their low meat content - instead they have to be called offal tubes) comes directly from a comedy series.
The UK has voted in favour of 98% or so of EU legislation and has an opt out for the important parts of the remaining 2%. Any international relationship is going to involve both parties accepting some terms they are less than thrilled with. If the UK thinks that the EU has been unfair, wait until we see the terms of the US/UK trade deal.
Ultimately it all goes back to cowardly UK governments of all kinds blaming unpopular legislation on the EU (whether or not they had anything to do with it) and claiming credit for popular EU legislation for 40+ years. That kind of propaganda is likely to leave a very biased impression of the EU.
Indeed, the question of the bad EU regulations has been raised regularly and whenever an answer is given it invariably turns out to be a partial or complete lie. Boris Johnson recently waved a kipper around declaring that EU regulations forced UK producers to ship them with an ice pack. This was simply untrue, the regulation in question was a UK regulation.
In other cases, such as bendy bananas or not being able to sell bananas singly (or in too large bunches, the story changes), it turns out to be a wilful misinterpretation of the relevant EU legislation.
At least one of the claims that regularly crops up (not being able to call British sausages, sausages because of their low meat content - instead they have to be called offal tubes) comes directly from a comedy series.
The UK has voted in favour of 98% or so of EU legislation and has an opt out for the important parts of the remaining 2%. Any international relationship is going to involve both parties accepting some terms they are less than thrilled with. If the UK thinks that the EU has been unfair, wait until we see the terms of the US/UK trade deal.
Ultimately it all goes back to cowardly UK governments of all kinds blaming unpopular legislation on the EU (whether or not they had anything to do with it) and claiming credit for popular EU legislation for 40+ years. That kind of propaganda is likely to leave a very biased impression of the EU.
Good post The Don.
I have sent on this text to a couple of English friends here who disagree on Brexit.
Interesting video from an ardent Remainer describing what may have just happened in Ireland and how this will lead to a no-deal.
Summary:
The ERG and DUP vote in favour of the deal because they know that the deal will never actually be implemented.
Summary:
- Boris Johnson has likely agreed to a deal involving a border in the Irish Sea
- He brings this deal to parliament
- Parliament approves it
- There isn't sufficient time to pass the other legislation to enable the deal to be put into law by 31 October
- The UK crashes out with no deal as planned
The ERG and DUP vote in favour of the deal because they know that the deal will never actually be implemented.
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
LOL Rabid Brexiteer wants to hang Grieve, Gauke, Hammond and 'the Father of the House' from the nearest lamp posts as 'traitors'.
A rabid Brexiteer cannot retain a facade of reasonableness and composure for any length of time without phrases like, 'He is a fanatical remainer and a clear liar and hypocrite for having the gall to stand as a Tory in the 2017 election', bursting forth unrestrained.
3point14
Pi
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Nigel has finally fessed up about who he's working for.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...against-measure-to-combat-russian-propaganda?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...against-measure-to-combat-russian-propaganda?
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