Cont: Brexit: Now What? 9 Below Zero

[Dave Rogers]

It's not clear to me what Blair messed up so badly.

In a word, Iraq. He believed the seriously erroneous claims that Iraq was stockpiling WMD, and was seen as too much in George W. Bush's pocket. I think there are people who still find it hard bring themselves to to vote Labour in the wake of Desert Storm 2.

Dave

 

[Castro]

Yep, difficult for some to forget the Bush's poddle thing.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

There are two things Blair did to tarnish Labour in the eyes of many, off the top of my head. First was having economic policies that seemed more Conservative than Labour. He himself called it "Thatcherism" once and spoke of his admiration for Thatcher. Whether or not such a move was necessary in order to update the party and make it relevant outside the 1970s, many of the more left-leaning supporters saw that as a betrayal of what the party stood for.

The second is his support for and complicity in the invasion of Iraq. Again, this isn't the place to debate the merits or otherwise of that, but this has tarnished him and, by extension, the Labour party in some people's eyes.

To make this post more-or-less on-topic for this thread, I'll say that this is still prevalent today. There was a video recently where he was talking a lot of sense about Brexit, talking about how the worst way to resolve it was through a general election, because that took a single issue and conflated it with other issues, like whether or not Corbyn is fit to lead the government. The polls show that the general public are against the Tory position on Brexit and would vote against it, but that they don't trust Corbyn's competence and so wouldn't vote for him. In other words, allowing the Tories to have a general election as opposed to a second referendum would be allowing them a vote they can win in lieu of a vote that they couldn't.

This is all very true and, as I said, makes a lot of sense. But there were tonnes of left-wingers dismissing it by saying things like "I don't give a **** what a war criminal has to say". Irrespective of how justified or otherwise they are, it's a genuine sentiment.

 

[catsmate]

Well of course if you agree to spend £27 billion extra on drugs then you're £27 billion worse off. But why would the UK ever agree to do such a thing? Looks like more project fear guff to me.

Would it have a choice? It's very much the weaker party in the negotiations...

 

[catsmate]

Even under our current stupid and incompetent politicians, I don't see why the UK would sign up for a trade deal that makes it worse off than not having a trade deal. So, assuming for the sake of argument that the £27 billion extra on drugs is true, what are the compensating reductions in costs that are greater than £27 billion?

Oh good grief...

Have you heard of this thing called "Brexit" that seems really popular at the moment?

Because Brexit isn't about benefiting the UK. Have you really not twigged that yet?

Denial of reality is strong with Brexiteers...

 

[catsmate]

I've started looking at retirement villages in Ireland.

Avoid Leitrim.

 

[quadraginta]

Revocation of article 50 must be done in good faith. UK explicitly can't revoke A50 with hopes of getting a better deal. It doesn't matter that no such deal is possible, UK can't even attempt it.

McHrozni

I'm not sure that good faith is very much of a hallmark of the political climate in the UK.

Perhaps the historical record is different* and it is something they can return to.

(*: Not so sure about that either, though.)

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

I'm not sure that good faith is very much of a hallmark of the political climate in the UK.

Perhaps the historical record is different* and it is something they can return to.

(*: Not so sure about that either, though.)

Any revocation of Article 50 would be accepted by the EU I am sure because they know once it is revoked it ain't going to come back for a long long time if ever.

Even at the height of the insanity, cheating like hell and lying through their teeth they could only persuade 52% to vote for it and a sizeable chunk of those never actually intended to win.

 

[Vixen]

An excellent post on a Facebook group (48%) yesterday:

"Johnson who once voted for the May deal and then voted against the May deal in order to force her resignation did no planning or involvement of parliament before saying that he would "do or die" by Oct 31st. Note that in the poem dedicated to the Charge of the Light Brigade the phrase used was "do and die"."


Apposite. Into the Valley of Death rode the 620 (MP's.)

The Light Brigade were the British light cavalry force government. It mounted light, fast horses MP's which were unarmoured. The men were armed with lances pens and sabrespaperclips. Optimized for maximum mobility and speed, they were intended for reconnaissance and skirmishing. They were also ideal for cutting down infantry backbenchers and artillery units Tory rebels as they attempted to retreat.


The Heavy Brigade under James Scarlett Jacob Rees Mogg was the British heavy cavalry force. It mounted large, heavy chargers, such as Mark Francois. The men were equipped with metal helmets pithy epithets and armed with cavalry swords ranting rhetoric for close combat. They were intended as the primary British shock force, leading frontal charges in order to break enemy lines.

Whips to the left of them, whips to right, volleyed and thundered
Into the voting chambers scuttled the six hundred.
And twenty.

 

[Vixen]

I wonder if, in the event of an England victory in the Rugby World Cup, the government will make some kind of announcement about how great the team is, conveniently overlooking the proportion of the team born overseas and/or born to first generation immigrants.

Er, as are half the cabinet.

 

[Vixen]

This will almost certainly lead to a Tory majority. So not only will we have the harshest of harsh Brexits, but we'll have 5 years of the Tories taking away people's rights, selling off the NHS, and siphoning money from the poor to the rich.

And what's worse is it's not improbable that Scotland will leave during those 5 years, and then we'll have the Tories ******* us over for the rest of our lives.

Also, depending on exactly when the election is scheduled, it may be down to the Tories to pick the next Speaker.

There are basically two ways to prevent a Tory majority in this election - everybody voting tactically, rather than for their party of choice (which isn't going to happen), or Corbyn stepping down as leader and a much better leader who can capture the public imagination taking his place (which is really not going to happen).

Nah. It'll be another hung government.

Looking forward to next season's new series of 'Brexit!

 

[Vixen]

Deleted. See GE thread.

 

[The Don]

Liam Fox wants to negotiate trade deals with the EU and US at the same time.

Ignoring the fact that an such trade deals are likely to have impacts on each other (for example, if the UK has to allow chlorinated chicken and steroidal beef from the US then the EU won't want our meat exports), hasn't he realised that we don't have enough negotiators to do one trade deal, much less two.

Perhaps he thinks that the school leavers he was looking to recruit into those roles can do the job unaided,

 

[Samson]

Liam Fox wants to negotiate trade deals with the EU and US at the same time.

Ignoring the fact that an such trade deals are likely to have impacts on each other (for example, if the UK has to allow chlorinated chicken and steroidal beef from the US then the EU won't want our meat exports), hasn't he realised that we don't have enough negotiators to do one trade deal, much less two.

Perhaps he thinks that the school leavers he was looking to recruit into those roles can do the job unaided,

There is a way to remain, but not by requiring Corbyn to stand aside.
He is temporary and Brexit is permanent.
All tactical endeavours should be driven by attaining another referendum.

My view from the distant seats.

 

[jimbob]

There is a way to remain, but not by requiring Corbyn to stand aside.
He is temporary and Brexit is permanent.
All tactical endeavours should be driven by attaining another referendum.

My view from the distant seats.

Even the most successful Tory chancellor of the last 40 years agrees with you.

 

[Nessie]

Nice to park brexit at the back of the mind for a while.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Boris Johnson has failed to sign off on the publication of a report into the Russian influence on Brexit

 

[3point14]

Boris Johnson has failed to sign off on the publication of a report into the Russian influence on Brexit

Now let's play "Which mainstream publications pick this up" and then become concerned at the state of our press corps as a result of those deliberations. Who the **** are they working for?

 

[Information Analyst]

This is the latest polling information from YouGov, one week ago.

Which, coincidentally, clearly shows that the losses of past Labour voters have been overwhelmingly to the Lib-Dems, Greens, and SNP (30% in all), and not Brexit Ltd. or the Tories (12%). Likewise, those still intending to vote Labour accounted for a third of Remain voters at the Referendum, and only 8% of Leave voters. But, you know, Remain Labour MPs in Leave constituencies....

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Now let's play "Which mainstream publications pick this up" and then become concerned at the state of our press corps as a result of those deliberations. Who the **** are they working for?

Won't be the BBC that's for sure. Watched QT for a bit last night and just appalled by what the BBC has become now.