Cont: Brexit: Now What? 9 Below Zero

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Jeremy Corbyn, his inner circle, Momentum and the unions have been drinking their own Kool Aid. IMO they are deluded and are going to lose, very badly.

Yes, I honestly think that they believe that the polls are all wrong and that they'll sweep to victory on a surge of grass-roots support.

 

[McHrozni]

I honestly don't give a **** who we can point fingers at. The country going down the plughole doesn't become better just because we can say it's Boris Johnson's fault.

No, but it is possible this will be the catalyst that leads UK away from toxic politics. Like 1945 was for Germany, but with fewer deaths.

I hope.

I'm sure Corbyn does think he can win. But he's wrong. The Conservatives are way ahead on the polls.

If he is of that opinion the verb "think" is inappropriately used above.

Nope, they've both categorically ruled that out.

Then I'm at a loss of what other tricks he might have.

Yes, he should. But he won't.

As I say, it's a disaster waiting to happen.

It's a disaster already unfolding, bit by bit. This is just another disaster within a disaster that has the potential of making everything even worse.

McHrozni

 

[McHrozni]

I wish I shared your optimism. I fear that the changes that the Conservatives will make will be irrevocable, especially if Scotland achieves independence.

Ask yourself what do you gain by being a pessimist

I always seek to find the best in every situation, even though I do prepare for the worst. I'd be stockpiling food if I were a Brit and hoping for a good outcome.

Jeremy Corbyn, his inner circle, Momentum and the unions have been drinking their own Kool Aid. IMO they are deluded and are going to lose, very badly.

Possible. But having well over half their support go unregistred by polls is a tad large a portion of Kool Aid to swallow. Brexiteers managed to get ~10% of their total support (5 percetage points in the end result) from a group of people who largely abstanined from voting until then and this was an unprecendented success. If Labour leadership believes they're favored to get five times as much ... I have a few bridges to sell them. Cheap, great investment.

McHrozni

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

No, but it is possible this will be the catalyst that leads UK away from toxic politics.

How? 5 years of one of the most right-wing governments this country has ever had doing exactly what they do, and a huge left-wing voting bloc removing themselves from future Westminster elections will see the exact opposite happen.

Then I'm at a loss of what other tricks he might have.

Right?

 

[3point14]

Ask yourself what do you gain by being a pessimist

Optimists spend their lives either merely satisfied their expectations have been met or devastated that they haven't.

Pessimists can occasionally be pleasantly surprised.

 

[McHrozni]

How? 5 years of one of the most right-wing governments this country has ever had doing exactly what they do, and a huge left-wing voting bloc removing themselves from future Westminster elections will see the exact opposite happen.

The way you kill an idea is to give it wings and let it fry on the Sun.

The results may be worse than the cure, but sometimes it's the only way.

McHrozni

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Yes, I honestly think that they believe that the polls are all wrong and that they'll sweep to victory on a surge of grass-roots support.

They went into the last election without a chance and managed to pull a narrow defeat out of the hat. I suppose they think it will be same again but with the added hope that the SNP and Lib Dems can take more Tory seats.

And I suppose from JC's point of view if he gambles and loses he gets his Brexit .

 

[McHrozni]

Optimists spend their lives either merely satisfied their expectations have been met or devastated that they haven't.

Pessimists can occasionally be pleasantly surprised.

That's one upside perhaps, but if you measure the overall stress suffered the optimist comes out well ahead of the pessimist.

McHrozni

 

[McHrozni]

They went into the last election without a chance and managed to pull a narrow defeat out of the hat. I suppose they think it will be same again but with the added hope that the SNP and Lib Dems can take more Tory seats.

And I suppose from JC's point of view if he gambles and loses he gets his Brexit .

Hmm. Maybe Labour is going into the election expecting they will lose, that Tories will take over and make a mess out of the country. Then Labour will come riding like a knight in shining horse, riding a glistering white armor to save the day ... as the only alternative to the disaster made flesh that is the Tory party.

That's how Tony Blair ascended to power, but he knew where the horse and the armor go.

There may be Kool-Aid involved, but not in the quantities suggested.

McHrozni

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

The way you kill an idea is to give it wings and let it fry on the Sun.

Yes, that worked for Austerity, didn't it? It's worked for Brexit, hasn't it?

This seems like a platitude with no basis in reality.

 

[McHrozni]

Yes, that worked for Austerity, didn't it? It's worked for Brexit, hasn't it?

This seems like a platitude with no basis in reality.

Except it did work for austerity, British public now rejects the notion. It also worked for Brexit, polls are consistently Bremain 50-44 Brexit - without Brexit taking place at all.

In both cases they don't outright reject the politicians that brought either, but that's primarily due to the other side offering such a weak array of countercandidates. You can thanks FPTP for that.

McHrozni

 

[Darat]

They went into the last election without a chance and managed to pull a narrow defeat out of the hat. I suppose they think it will be same again but with the added hope that the SNP and Lib Dems can take more Tory seats.

And I suppose from JC's point of view if he gambles and loses he gets his Brexit .

I think it will be more they are hoping the Brexit company - sorry "party" will reduce the Tory vote.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

They went into the last election without a chance and managed to pull a narrow defeat out of the hat.

Because Theresa May was a charisma vacuum who ran on a platform of taking money from old people. Johnson has charisma (or, at least, enough of a facsimile to get him over with the public), due to a carefully-cultivated image as a lovable but harmless bozo, and will be running on a platform of "I'm a brave everyman trying to enact the Will Of The People against the Establishment, and once I've done that I'm going to pave the streets with gold. Follow me and you'll all be prosperous beyond your wildest dreams".

 

[3point14]

Except it did work for austerity, British public now rejects the notion.

In the main, the British public can't distinguish the effects of austerity from the effects of immigration.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Except it did work for austerity, British public now rejects the notion. It also worked for Brexit, polls are consistently Bremain 50-44 Brexit - without Brexit taking place at all.

If the Tories are going to get a majority at the next election, then how can it possibly be said that these ideas have been killed? The Tories are still free to siphon money from the poor to the rich, and to drag us kicking and screaming out of the EU in order to **** over poor people some more.

Offering your face to the bully to punch while saying "please don't punch me again" isn't actually taking a stance against being punched in the face.

 

[Nessie]

As usual, Jeremy Corbyn fails to understand:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50221856
Except that it isn't off the table, it's still the default outcome

I think he means no deal is off the table between now and an election, not forever off the table.

 

[McHrozni]

If the Tories are going to get a majority at the next election, then how can it possibly be said that these ideas have been killed?

The question on the election is not "are you happy with the state of Brexit" nor is it "are you happy with austerity". The question is "who of these chaps do you think is best suited to run the country for the next five years?".

It just so happens neither LibDem not Labour are seen as a good choice. I can appreciate why, LibDem are too small and have too few experienced cadres and Labour have been beclowning themselves for three years straight.

Even so, their combined vote outstrips the Tory vote though. Labour, LibDem, SNP, Cymru and Green combined have 51% of the vote. It's the FPTP that may give Tories their majority, not the actual breakdown of the electorate.

McHrozni

 

[The Don]

I think he means no deal is off the table between now and an election, not forever off the table.

Which demonstrates the shallowness of his understanding.

The first act of a victorious Conservative government would be to put no deal back on the table. Heck they could just run the clock down to 31 January 2020 to achieve it.

Which leads me to believe that Jeremy Corbyn would rather have no deal than no Brexit. His most preferred option would be the red-hued unicorn deal Brexit but he'd still rather a no deal than no Brexit.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

The question on the election is not "are you happy with the state of Brexit" nor is it "are you happy with austerity".

No it's not. But, by the same token, saying "I'm against austerity" while voting in the people who continue to implement austerity is nothing but empty noise. You're talking about "kill[ing] idea[s by] giv[ing] them wings and let[ting them] fry on the Sun". How can those ideas be said to have been "killed" if the people are enabling them by continuing to vote in the people who are carrying those ideas out?

Muttering into your tea that you don't like it while ensuring that it carries on doesn't count as killing an idea.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

So, the Casey Amendment passed. What that means is that the government had taken off the table the ability for other parties to amend the bill for an election. The Casey Amendment amends that bill to allow for other parties to amend it.

On that note: https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1189180030527639552

Government is now threatening to pull the general-election bill if Labour insists on amendment to enfranchise 3.4m EU citizens. It all gets crazier