Cont: Brexit: Now What? 7th heaven...

[The Don]

Boris is proposing a huge tax cut for high earners funding it by using

money currently set aside for a no-deal Brexit to raise the 40% tax rate threshold to £80,000.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48577579

Don't know if this means he plans to do a deal (in which case money put aside for the dire consequences of a no-deal Brexit will be spunked away on the rich) or if he's going to default on the divorce payment any use that.

 

[McHrozni]

Boris is proposing a huge tax cut for high earners funding it by using

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48577579

Don't know if this means he plans to do a deal (in which case money put aside for the dire consequences of a no-deal Brexit will be spunked away on the rich) or if he's going to default on the divorce payment any use that.

It's kind of hard to default on the dicorce payment and not have a no-deal Brexit.

Maybe he's plan - I'm not sure that's the right word here - to do a deal with the EU, then default on the payment and expect everything to go smoothly from there on.

Would that be his stupidest idea of the week?

McHrozni

 

[The Don]

It's kind of hard to default on the dicorce payment and not have a no-deal Brexit.

Maybe he's plan - I'm not sure that's the right word here - to do a deal with the EU, then default on the payment and expect everything to go smoothly from there on.

Would that be his stupidest idea of the week?

McHrozni

Unless his plan is to use exactly the right combination of words (written in the right colour ink ?) which will suddenly cause the EU to give the UK the kind of trade deal that the Brexiteers promised us during the referendum campaign (a la Sovereign Citizen movement) in which case there will be no need for money to be set aside in case of a no-deal Brexit and no divorce payment required.

 

[Nessie]

I think we are back to square one, where Britain is Great, the EU needs us more than we need it and we will get the full benefit of membership without the cost or need to comply with rules over immigrants.

 

[KDLarsen]

You say 'they would immediately stop all trade talks' like that's not a big deal.

My apologies if it comes across as that, but I'm just trying to get my head around the somewhat cavalier notion of "We'll withhold payment to force them give us a better deal", and what on earth is making Boris Johnson think it'll actually work.

And I must admit, at some level I fear it might work, unless the EU have a fairly straight forward recourse that allows them to put the squeeze on a future PM reckless enough to try it.

 

[The Don]

My apologies if it comes across as that, but I'm just trying to get my head around the somewhat cavalier notion of "We'll withhold payment to force them give us a better deal", and what on earth is making Boris Johnson think it'll actually work.

And I must admit, at some level I fear it might work, unless the EU have a fairly straight forward recourse that allows them to put the squeeze on a future PM reckless enough to try it.

I think it boils down to the highlighted bit from Nessie's post

I think we are back to square one, where Britain is Great, the EU needs us more than we need it and we will get the full benefit of membership without the cost or need to comply with rules over immigrants.

IOW, unicorns, rainbows and other forms of magical thinking.....

 

[Nessie]

I have been wondering why so many Tories are standing to be PM. I think it is because they genuinely believe that they would have done a better job than May at Brexit.

I think it is a sign of over confidence beating a genuine understanding of the issues and reality.

When the next PM gets bogged down like May did, I wonder if that will finally dent the over confidence and wake Brexiters up to that reality.

 

[Andy_Ross]

If Boris Johnson would be stupid enough to actually try that, what recourse would the EU have? Certainly they would immediately stop all trade talks (which they'd do anyway until the terms of the withdrawal agreements have been met), but other than that?

Defaulting on an international debt?

It would tank Britains international credit rating and make any prospective trade partners think twice.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Boris is proposing a huge tax cut for high earners funding it by using



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48577579

Don't know if this means he plans to do a deal (in which case money put aside for the dire consequences of a no-deal Brexit will be spunked away on the rich) or if he's going to default on the divorce payment any use that.

He also plans to increase National Insurance contributions.
So he is giving a tax cut with one hand and taking it away with the other.

 

[The Don]

I have been wondering why so many Tories are standing to be PM. I think it is because they genuinely believe that they would have done a better job than May at Brexit.

I think it is a sign of over confidence beating a genuine understanding of the issues and reality.

When the next PM gets bogged down like May did, I wonder if that will finally dent the over confidence and wake Brexiters up to that reality.

IMO no.

If the next PM gets bogged down then the Brexiteers will just put it down to that individual not being up to the job and/or foreigners being beastly.

Then again the next PM may cut the Gordian knot and simply leave with a no-deal. Any or all negative consequences will be blamed on beastly foreigners and the PM will be hailed as a hero by the Conservative Party.

IMO there's a mixture of those who absolutely know the score and who are in it for personal gain, those who know the score but who are doing it for ideological reasons (better to be a free pauper than a lord who has to bow to a foreign power) and those who are genuinely deluded and think that the British Empire v 2.0 will emerge from the ashes of a no-deal Brexit.

Those groups are not mutually exclusive.

 

[The Don]

He also plans to increase National Insurance contributions.
So he is giving a tax cut with one hand and taking it away with the other.

Unless that income is not subject to National Insurance contributions.

AFAIK investment income, dividends and capital gains are not, and rich people get a far greater proportion of their income from these sources than the rest of us.

 

[Tolls]

He also plans to increase National Insurance contributions.
So he is giving a tax cut with one hand and taking it away with the other.

As the Don says, he's giving to the well off with one hand, and taking from the rest with the other.

Again.

Bloody Tories...

 

[Vixen]

Boris is proposing a huge tax cut for high earners funding it by using



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48577579

Don't know if this means he plans to do a deal (in which case money put aside for the dire consequences of a no-deal Brexit will be spunked away on the rich) or if he's going to default on the divorce payment any use that.

The man is going to fund the tax cut (affecting three million) by increasing National Insurance contributions affecting twenty million.

The man is an idiot. A no-deal Brexit and withholding of the 'divorce settlement' will immediately plunge the UK into an economic crisis as investors line up to remove their funds (cf Neil Woodford recently) resulting in fundholders 'suspending' the acccounts to avoid a run, banks shutting their doors (ditto) and the government having to 'do a Greece/Cyrpus' by helping themselves to 10% f each bank account holder's money. Unemployment will surge as redundancies spiral, thanks to companies leaving our shores.

I for one will remove all of my funds from the UK including my healthy pension pot if there is any whiff of a no-deal Brexit.

 

[Ian Osborne]

The man is an idiot.

Maybe not. Remember, it's the Conservative party membership that's voting for the next PM, not the public. Perhaps funding tax cuts for the wealthy with tax increases for the less well off is exactly what he needs.

 

[McHrozni]

Unless [Boris Johnsons'] plan is to use exactly the right combination of words (written in the right colour ink ?) which will suddenly cause the EU to give the UK the kind of trade deal that the Brexiteers promised us during the referendum campaign (a la Sovereign Citizen movement) in which case there will be no need for money to be set aside in case of a no-deal Brexit and no divorce payment required.

[Boris Johnson] also plans to increase National Insurance contributions.
So he is giving a tax cut with one hand and taking it away with the other.

You guys keep using this word, I'm not sure it's appropriate. Could you present some evidence maybe?

McHrozni

 

[Vixen]

Maybe not. Remember, it's the Conservative party membership that's voting for the next PM, not the public. Perhaps funding tax cuts for the wealthy with tax increases for the less well off is exactly what he needs.

I can't see that it would entice the tax exiles back to the UK. On the other hand, many of the >£80K earners have already ensured they receive their income through their limited companies thus paying at company tax rate (20%) and as a charge against profits. Others will be the small band of plc CEO's and senior public servants such as judges who earn well over >£120K.

It will have an impact on how much tax relief they get on their pension contributions.

I would guess BoJo would not only need to increase NI but may also decrease personal tax thresholds so that one starts paying tax from say, £4K pa upwards rather than the current basic £12K.

It will, of course, hit ordinary people the hardest.

 

[Vixen]

You guys keep using this word, I'm not sure it's appropriate. Could you present some evidence maybe?

McHrozni

Have a look at the news..?

 

[The Don]

Have a look at the news..?

I think McHrozni was questioning whether BoJo has an actual (coherent and thought through) plan - as opposed to just saying stuff.

 

[McHrozni]

Have a look at the news..?

Yeah, I'm trying to say his ideas do not merit being called plans.

We don't call flat earthers giving out theories either. They're either ideas if you want to be polite or BS if you call a spade a spade.

It works the same with BJ Baboon.

McHrozni

 

[The Don]

Interestingly, people in the UK are now much less concerned about immigration - one of the key drivers behind Brexit.

Something remarkable appears to be happening when it comes to public concern about immigration - British attitudes appear to be undergoing a turnaround.

Where once immigration was seen as the biggest problem for the UK, a negative force on national life, now it barely registers on the list of voter concerns, with polls suggesting increasing numbers believe it has had a positive impact on Britain.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48545143

Of course it could be that Brexiteers think that, as Brexit is underway, all of their issues relating to immigration will be resolved as a result.

I hope that it really does reflect more positive attitudes to immigrants and immigration.