Cont: Brexit: Now What? 7th heaven...

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

"The government has been described as sick and uncaring by an organisation representing more than 10,000 British nationals in Europe over NHS healthcare plans for pensioners in a no-deal Brexit scenario.

British nationals who have retired to EU countries have reacted with fury to what they describe as an insulting and offensive offer by the government to cover healthcare costs for up to one year if they had applied for or are undergoing treatment before exit day."

Charming. Get diagnosed with any serious illness after no-deal Brexit day and you'd have to return to the UK for treatment, possibly on a regular basis. Smells like Hunt's work, or maybe IDS. Somebody who doesn't give a **** about others. I wonder what ******** dreamt it up?

This was the will of the people who voted to Leave remember.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I'm absolutely baffled. May is going for the 'Are you really, really, REALLY sure you won't back my deal?' route, despite the Commons having rejected it twice already.

And I thought I was hard of hearing, evidently May must have it even worse than me!

It only has the 1st and 3rd greatest defeats in history, surely she can rack up more of the top 10 before she can really take it seriously.

 

[The Don]

I'll posit the suggestion that May, who was a remainer initially, has been deliberately bolloxing this process so as to make the whole thing fail and fail spectacularly while making the ratbags like Rees-Mogg and Farage the villains of the piece. Not only will the Brexit deadline get extended, that extension will eventually go on indefinitely...on and on...until everyone realises the UK is never ever leaving at all and everyone can go back to where they were before the thing flared up.

I'm not so sure that Theresa May ever was a "true" remainer. My view is that she made a tactical and political decision to support the Remain campaign rather than it being an ideological position. When she was Home Secretary, she repeatedly said things that gave the impression that she wanted the UK to be free of EU interference in our ability to deprive people of their human rights. I think that she is a Leaver and that primary Leave motivation is to reclaim sovereignty that she feels has been lost to the EU.

 

[Vixen]

So not driving the bus over the cliff, but backing it over the cliff while trying not to drive forward.

Yeah, with members of the ERG being forcibly held back by Anna Soubry and Rudd to stop them from tipping the bloody thing right over.

 

[Vixen]

This was the will of the people who voted to Leave remember.

Brits abroad didn't get to vote in the referendum.

 

[Vixen]

There are options that could be done, but are utterly unacceptable to DUP or British Parliament.

1. The backstop applies to NI only.
2. The backstop can be overturned by a referendum in NI. The referendum must have a 60% treshold to end the backstop, allow ranking of choices and must include Irish reunification as an option.

EU already suggested the first option, but Theresa May, in her infinite* wisdom, declined. I think EU might agree to the second as well, but same problem applies. DUP will never agree to it, no British PM would. There's one more I can think of:

3. Time-limit the backstop to 2100. This kicks the can down the road far enough not to be anyone's problem. It may be acceptable. It's not a good solution, but it might work. The necessary technology should be implementable before that date.

* infinitely small, unless she really is trying to stop Brexit altogether. We'll see in just over a week.

McHrozni

Why not time limit it to in the year 2525?

 

[3point14]

I'm not so sure that Theresa May ever was a "true" remainer. My view is that she made a tactical and political decision to support the Remain campaign rather than it being an ideological position. When she was Home Secretary, she repeatedly said things that gave the impression that she wanted the UK to be free of EU interference in our ability to deprive people of their human rights. I think that she is a Leaver and that primary Leave motivation is to reclaim sovereignty that she feels has been lost to the EU.

She's a career politician. Her 'ideology' is whatever, at the time, is most likely to get her elected.

 

[McHrozni]

Why not time limit it to in the year 2525?

If man is still alive
if the woman can survive ...

It's too far away. So is 2100 of course, but the date isn't quite as absurd and still allows for a fig leaf for the odd MP that genuinetly wants Brexit, but is put off by the backstop (if any exist). A time limit to 2525 does not.

McHrozni

 

[McHrozni]

I'll posit the suggestion that May, who was a remainer initially, has been deliberately bolloxing this process so as to make the whole thing fail and fail spectacularly while making the ratbags like Rees-Mogg and Farage the villains of the piece. Not only will the Brexit deadline get extended, that extension will eventually go on indefinitely...on and on...until everyone realises the UK is never ever leaving at all and everyone can go back to where they were before the thing flared up.

I've been suggesting this since day 1 of her premiership. I'm not sure the position is accurate, the signs waver from one side to the other, most recent signs are genuinely point towards "no, this really is her best". We'll see the truth in the next eight days.

I certainly hope we're right and the Don was wrong all along
So does he, I think.

McHrozni

 

[Dave Rogers]

I've been suggesting this since day 1 of her premiership.

I think a lot of people have been thinking it for quite a long time. Despite the wise advice embodied in Hanlon's Razor, the level of incompetence currently on display strains credibility almost beyond breaking point.

Dave

 

[catsmate]

She's basically blaming parliament for all the trouble, and she doesn't say a single word of blame about Jean-Claude Juncker, Donald Tusk, Michel Barnier and the other European leaders. I believe this might indicate a certain lack of lucidity on her part.

Because the Brexit mess is the fault of May, UK parliamentarians and the UK populace.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

I think a lot of people have been thinking it for quite a long time. Despite the wise advice embodied in Hanlon's Razor, the level of incompetence currently on display strains credibility almost beyond breaking point.

Dave

But let's be honest, in the Parliamentary Incompetence ranks for the last few years she's definitely on the curve. There are too many Moggs, Johnsons and Davises (to name but three) to make her an outlier and it's a toss up between her and her predecessor for the title of "Most Damaging Prime Minister".

 

[catsmate]

Don't forget that MPs voted about a week ago to request a delay to Brexit:

Come up with a coherent plan and maybe the EU will grant it.

They also rejected the UK leaving the EU without a deal by 321 to 278 votes.

Which means nothing.

 

[catsmate]

In my opinion, she is not completely without merit, because she has been seeking what she calls an "orderly Brexit",

Syat in the customs union then. Simples.

 

[catsmate]

What do you think everybody wanted from her and Brits? Reminder: Portion of Deal (Irish backstop) was May's idea!
We are not responsible fort terminal idiocy of Brits, that they can't agree on anything including what they want...

Don't go confusing Brexiteers with facts. Their brains might overheat.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

This petition to revoke article 50, started after May's speech last night, has gained nearly 750,000 signatures in 12 hours

There's so much traffic that the site is down more often than it's up.

 

[3point14]

This petition to revoke article 50, started after May's speech last night, has gained nearly 750,000 signatures in 12 hours

There's so much traffic that the site is down more often than it's up.

It's a UK government website.

Be amazed it's ever up.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

A petition to revoke Article 50 has crashed out the UK Gov petitions site and has been gaining 1,500 signatures a minute.

petitions-site-crashes-after-thousands-back-call-to-revoke-article-50


And a link to the petition itself for anyone interested


It's up and down at the moment, if only we could tell how many signatures have been missed...

 

[catsmate]

There are options that could be done, but are utterly unacceptable to DUP or British Parliament.

1. The backstop applies to NI only.
2. The backstop can be overturned by a referendum in NI. The referendum must have a 60% treshold to end the backstop, allow ranking of choices and must include Irish reunification as an option.
<snip>
3. Time-limit the backstop to 2100. This kicks the can down the road far enough not to be anyone's problem. It may be acceptable. It's not a good solution, but it might work. The necessary technology should be implementable before that date.

1. Effectively a border in the Irish Sea, not acceptable to DUP and much of the Conservative and Unionist Party.
2. Which means what exactly? What replaces the backstop?
And don't munder on about magic "technological solutions"'; if these were actually possible the Brexiteers would have enumerated them and agreed to the Backstop knowing it would be a short term measure.
3. Again not acceptable to the DUP and CUP. Basing actions on possible future technological developments is stupid in the extreme.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Nice attempt to excuse Corbyn's childish behavior. he damaged himself quite a bit with that stunt. Corbyn does a great job of undeerminng his own credibtility without May getting involved.

Imagine what a strong position a competent Labour with a good leader could be in right now...