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Brand New CT sub-group: No-Sounders

If you don't I will have no choice but to declare Gravy's video debunked by his own standard in a new thread. Don't bother with any of your other nonsense it won't be responded to. You have your homework assignment and your hero debunker leader is counting on you. He made his bed and will have to sleep in it if you don't come through. Hurry your movement depends on you. Now I have to go and make a movement of my own if you know what I mean. LOL

What part of this are you not comprehending?

We are not a "movement". We don't have a platform, we aren't trying to enact reforms, we aren't trying to start a revolution, and we don't pretend we're saving the world.

We are, to put it bluntly, a band of independently acting nerds with a lot of spare time. The ONLY thing we have in common is that we enjoy debunking nonsense.
 
Even despite the vague (read: non-existent) details of the video in your challenge, I'm going to attempt to meet it, just because I'm a nice guy:





That good enough for you? Or were you lying this whole time?
 
I'm not just talking to you. Besides are you sure about that? Are you claiming those explosive sounds heard in that video wouldn't necessarily be picked up by other microphones? Gee that sounds like my argument. As for them not being as loud as demolition charges I beg to differ and so do others...



Fascinating. I see a kid wearing a dust-mask, the sort that is available at any pharmacy, talking on a pay phone. For some reason, he is being filmed.
Would anyone care to speculate on why the camera is pointed at him?

The focus is clear when the kid is talking on the phone (again--why is he wearing a mask?), but it gets blurry when actual footage of firefighters is introduced.

Call me a cynic, but would someone please explain why a video was being made of a kid making a phone call?

Am I missing something, or are these embarrassingly obvious fakes?

I wonder if LC is planning to tell us where he found these videos.
 
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I have a question:

If we all just stopped replying to the wild and woolly rantings of this one kid, what would happen?

His/Her pet conspiracy theory has been thouroughly debunked. I contend that s/he has (or at least feels he has) invested so much time and effort that to admit to being wrong now is unfathomable to him. Despite the fact that having the strength of character to admit to being wrong would probably gain him/her respect.

But let's ignore that for the moment, and focus instead on his/her motivation. As I said, I reckon it's a matter of percieved investment. From his/her dancing and dodging and, well, the only word I can think of is temper-tantrums (which remind me of my nephews when they were 2 or 3), I have reached the conclusion that s/he knows, deep down inside, that the CT is bunk. It has nothing to support it. But his/her brain simply cannot let go yet.

So my question: If we all stopped playing for him/her, would s/he sober up and wise up, or is the risk of him/her running off to a CT board to declare his/her uncontested victory sever enough that debunking him/her is still worth the while?

Just my idle, probably off-topic, musings.

Another muse: We have "his" and "him" for different purposes to reflect upon the male gender, but only "her" for the equivalent uses for the female gender. Odd. I never noticed that before.
 
I think this thread shows that the twoofer movement has reached a new level of utter stupidity. I mean it used to be about some clever cons who tried to mislead people with bad data. Now it's guys like this making claims that even people with no expertise what so ever would laugh at. Only to be topped by the new thread comparing the WTC to a volcano and saying the smoke coming out of the building was a diversion.

Could the twoof movement be now moving into the 8-12 yr old demographic now instead of the 13-17 yr olds?
 
Even despite the vague (read: non-existent) details of the video in your challenge, I'm going to attempt to meet it, just because I'm a nice guy:





That good enough for you? Or were you lying this whole time?

Good try! But no cigar.

"HOURS AFTER THE ATTACK MANY SMALLER EXPLOSIONS..."?

Smaller compared to what? The earlier big ones? LOL

I don't know if this is the same explosion but I'll give it to you anyway. The problem with this is the same as my 2nd explosion vid. It's not nearly picked-up as loud as the first and would never have been heard from that position over the sound of the collapse of the building.

But you did at least try so good for you. Maybe you can find all the others I asked for too and maybe you will find a bunch that would be heard over the sound of a collapsing skyscraper.

Maybe but that debunker standard of truth is pretty hard to live up to. Some would say impossible.

You guys are running out of time.

HURRY!
 
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You guys are running out of time.

HURRY!

Actually kid, it's you who are running out of time.

Bush is out of office in a year, at which time the public will move on from hating Bush to focussing on other things. That means a lot less public interest in kook theories.

So if I were you I'd take your "evidence" to some experts and show them how silent demolitions are done. You've failed miserably here but you're no doubt saving your best stuff for when it really counts, right?

I just hope you don't plan on just posting crap on-line for the rest of your life. That would be irresponsible given what's at stake, doncha think?
 
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Good try! But no cigar.

"HOURS AFTER THE ATTACK MANY SMALLER EXPLOSIONS..."?

Smaller compared to what? The earlier big ones? LOL

I don't know if this is the same explosion but I'll give it to you anyway. The problem with this is the same as my 2nd explosion vid. It's not nearly picked-up as loud as the first and would never have been heard from that position over the sound of the collapse of the building.

Uh, can anyone figure out what LastChild's point is here? Because I can't make heads or tails of this.
 
Uh, can anyone figure out what LastChild's point is here? Because I can't make heads or tails of this.

Wait, I think I've got it. I think he's saying that if the sound in the video WAS a demolition charge, it would have been louder.

Is that it? Is that your point LC?
 
I'm astonished that this thread has ballooned to nine pages of troll-feeding, particularly with such a puerile troll.

The essence of Gravy's video is a simple piece of logic, denying the consequent, like so:

If A, then B
Not B.
Therefore, not A.

Unlike the favorite CTer fallacies of affirming the consequent and denying the antecedent, this is a valid form of reasoning. In fact, it's the basis of pretty much all diagnostic thinking. I use it all the time in troubleshooting audio systems, and the last time I saw a doctor for an ailment rather than a checkup, he explained how he had eliminated two of the possible causes of the problem by testing to see if other predictable effects of these causes were there and finding that they weren't.

Trivial example:

If the mains fuse is blown, the pilot light won't illuminate.
The pilot light is lit.
Therefore the mains fuse is not blown.

Gravy demonstrates that in an explosive demolition the sounds of the cutting charges detonating can be heard and recorded (and make people flinch) at a considerable distance and that they are louder than the sound of the now-unsupported building collapsing. So then we have:

If the destruction of the WTC towers was done with explosives as is done in the demolition industry, the sound of the charges detonating would be audible outside the buildings and recorded on the audio tracks of any nearby video cameras aimed at the buildings. (if A then B)

No authentic recording of the collapses reveals anything of the sort. (not B)

Therefore explosive charges were not used to make the towers collapse. (therefore not A)

This applies to other predictable effects of steel-cutting charges detonating within the burning buildings, such as obvious disturbances of the smoke by pressure waves propagating outward from the charges and the effects of these overpressures on nearby buildings and people.

If someone produces an authentic record of the collapses which does reveal these effects, the conclusion that explosives were not used would have to be reevaluated, but in the present state of the complete absence of that evidence one is justified in holding that the evidence refutes the use of explosives.

No amount of nitpicking about microphones or recorder circuitry can alter that, nor any quantity of handwaving and kook-dancing.

Unless LastChild can produce evidence that the predictable effects of explosive demolition were in fact present and have been overlooked, there is no point at all in continuing to indulge him/her.

Although I'll admit that it has been amusing to watch another CTer provide conclusive proof that he/she doesn't even come close to knowing what he/she is talking about. :D
 
OK...I reread all 9 pages of this thread, and with it fresh in my mind, I slipped into a loincloth, climbed the highest snow covered peak I could find, and meditated on the topic.

What was revealed to me by the forces of woo ( or maybe hypothermia ) was quite possibly what LastChild is on about.

LastChild..Is your position one that states that Gravy's video only debunks the possibility of a controlled demolition as we know a controlled demolition to be ? IE...BOOMBOOMBOOMBOOMCRASH

Are you implying that another type of explosion, or explosions could have aided in initiating the collapse of both towers?

Hypothetically, could just a "few" smaller charges been placed inside the building's core, where they'd be muffled by the building itself, and merely served to get the ball rolling...so to speak ?
 
"HOURS AFTER THE ATTACK MANY SMALLER EXPLOSIONS..."?

Smaller compared to what? The earlier big ones? LOL



Yes, remember those two explosions when airliners rammed into the buildings? You may even recall that at the time many people described the collapses themselves as explosions.

By the way, that second video you posted - the guy talking on the phone - has fake audio. Have a nice day.

-Gumboot
 
OK...I reread all 9 pages of this thread, and with it fresh in my mind, I slipped into a loincloth, climbed the highest snow covered peak I could find, and meditated on the topic.

It’s really not that hard to grasp is it?

What was revealed to me by the forces of woo ( or maybe hypothermia ) was quite possibly what LastChild is on about.

hmmm…? Did it really take all that? Don’t hurt your self.

LastChild..Is your position one that states that Gravy's video only debunks the possibility of a controlled demolition as we know a controlled demolition to be ? IE...BOOMBOOMBOOMBOOMCRASH

I don’t think gravy really debunks much of anything. Ever.

Are you implying that another type of explosion, or explosions could have aided in initiating the collapse of both towers?

Sure. Why not? Not necessarily another type though. I mean if some are going to imply no explosives were needed then why is the only other choice many explosives and on every floor?

Hypothetically, could just a "few" smaller charges been placed inside the building's core, where they'd be muffled by the building itself, and merely served to get the ball rolling...so to speak ?

If you like. But I was talking about after the collapse initiated because that's what Gravy compares his cd vids to. The collapse already in progress.
 

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