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Boycott Arizona?

Cleon said:
Yes, I'm sure Los Angeles is completely oblivious. :rolleyes:
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They got Operation Gatekeeper, we didn't. So yes, either they dont want to share the problem (which is what Im guessing is the real motivation on their end) or they ARE completely oblivious to what's going on now.

This is just another example of the extreme ignorance of this situation by those passing judgement
 
Cleon said:
No, he said "prevent them from entering," not "slow them down for a few minutes."
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Actually, double fences have been shown to be VERY effective in preventing illegals from entering. Which is why Obama hasn't built the hundreds of miles of double fence that the American people demanded and that Congress passed.
 
Cleon said:
Yes, I'm sure Los Angeles is completely oblivious. :rolleyes:
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Actually they may be seeing as their city council passed that silly boycott. Here's how out of touch with reality they really are and why this boycott is going backfire on them:

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/05/12/94050/most-americans-approve-of-arizonas.html

A strong majority of Americans support Arizona's controversial new immigration law and would back similar laws in their own states, a new McClatchy-Ipsos poll found.

Sixty-one percent of Americans — and 64 percent of registered voters — said they favored the law in a survey of 1,016 adults conducted May 6-9.

Strikingly, nearly half of Democrats like the law, under which local law enforcement officers are tasked with verifying people's immigration status if they suspect them of being in the country illegally. While the Democratic Party generally is regarded as more sympathetic to illegal immigrants' plights, 46 percent of Democrats said they favored the law for Arizona and 49 percent said they'd favor the law's passage in their own states.
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pipelineaudio said:
They got Operation Gatekeeper, we didn't. So yes, either they dont want to share the problem (which is what Im guessing is the real motivation on their end) or they ARE completely oblivious to what's going on now.

This is just another example of the extreme ignorance of this situation by those passing judgement
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If you seriously think that Los Angeles is unfamiliar with coyotes or illegal immigration in general, the only person ignorant of the situation is you.
 
pipelineaudio said:
Thats correct. Right now the employer can ask, but the police can't. Since an employer who is intent on hiring illegals has absolutley no incentive to share his records with on workers' citizenship with the police, you can imagine how hard it is to bust an employer for hiring illegally, when you aren't allowed to find out if the workers are illegal. Right now the employment busts are mostly set off by following stolen identities.
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Working for an employment agency, e-verify is our best friend. It's gotten a lot better at catching stolen identities over the last couple of years. Arizona is one of the states that's supposed to require all new employees to be checked by it but that doesn't mean everyone is.
 
BeAChooser said:
Actually, double fences have been shown to be VERY effective in preventing illegals from entering.
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Despite never being implemented, it was shown to be effective?

Call me skeptical.

Which is why Obama hasn't built the hundreds of miles of double fence that the American people demanded and that Congress passed.
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Riiight. It couldn't possibly be any other reason.
 
Thunder said:
Are you considering not visiting Arizona because of the recent immigration, Birther, and ethnic education legislation that has been passed or proposed in the State?

I must admit...I am having thoughts of not passing through.
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Yes. I've adding AZ to my list of places I boycott, now consisting of Arizona and France.
 
BeAChooser said:
Actually, double fences have been shown to be VERY effective in preventing illegals from entering. Which is why Obama hasn't built the hundreds of miles of double fence that the American people demanded and that Congress passed.
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Double fences worked very well in the several prisons my wife worked in.

There was one attempt to go over the fences, with a stolen helicopter, but brilliant as they thought they were they ran out of gas and crashed.


DDWW
 
Derail:

A merchant can refuse a sale for any reason. Therefore not presenting ID will cause some people to reject sales (me for one - because credit card fraud is _a problem_)

End Derail.

Re: BaC's survery:

Sixty-one percent of Americans — and 64 percent of registered voters — said they favored the law in a survey of 1,016 adults conducted May 6-9.
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1016 adults. How many people live in america?
 
Rika said:
A merchant can refuse a sale for any reason. Therefore not presenting ID will cause some people to reject sales (me for one - because credit card fraud is _a problem_)
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Yes. But by the same token, the Visa company can also pull your credit card reader for any reason -- and especially because you signed an agreement that said "I will not reject sales simply because the buyer did not present ID."

The simplest solution to credit card fraud is not to accept credit cards. If you persist in demanding ID, that may end up being your position.
 
JoeTheJuggler said:
This sounds much more like BS:



The law authorizes police to detain people they suspect of being illegal. They can be held unless/until federal agencies inform the local police whether their immigration status is valid. If the person in question can produce good documents, they won't be detained. So effectively, it is "show me your papers" or go to jail for a while.

It's BS to say that we all present our driver's licenses when we buy something at the store.
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Well, here in California, when you write a check, photo ID is asked for to prevent fraud.
 
JoeTheJuggler said:
It's a way to remove probable cause. If an officer has probable cause (not based on race or ethnicity--of course), what do you suppose is the sequence of events? I would imagine the officer would ask the person's status. If the person can show good documents, then the officer will no longer have probable cause.

OTOH, I have no idea what "probable cause" could possibly be if it's not racial/ethnic profiling. These aren't border patrol agents, but local and state cops, so they're not witnessing people coming into the country. There is no outward sign (not language, not ethnicity, not the type of car, the clothing, not the commission of other crimes--nothing) that can distinguish an illegal from a legal immigrant or even a citizen.

If you're a Mexican legally living in Arizona, you would be foolish not to carry your documentation with you, if this law goes into effect. The reason is because producing your papers can remove probable cause.
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Have you even driven near the US/Mexico border? Say on the I-8 between Yuma and San Diego? You may notice Border Patrol checkpoints. They take a quick look at you and your vehicle, if they have reasonable suspicion, they detain you, if they don't have probable cause, they let you continue on your way. Otherwise, there is a bus waiting, and every time I go through this area, there seems to be at least a few people waiting on the bus.

Is the border patrol therefore more evil than SB1070?
 
RussDill said:
Have you even driven near the US/Mexico border? Say on the I-8 between Yuma and San Diego? You may notice Border Patrol checkpoints. They take a quick look at you and your vehicle, if they have reasonable suspicion, they detain you, if they don't have probable cause, they let you continue on your way. Otherwise, there is a bus waiting, and every time I go through this area, there seems to be at least a few people waiting on the bus.

Is the border patrol therefore more evil than SB1070?
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I used to live in Southern Arizona. On the drive to Tuscon is a permanent Border Patrol checkpoint, though it is not always manned. If it is manned, every vehicle has to stop. I get waved though every time. I admit that I have no idea how it would work if I looked like I could be an illegal immigrant.

Personally, I think those checkpoints are stupid because everybody knows where they are and because they are not always manned. Anybody with half a brain trying to take illegals or drugs north will find out if the checkpoint is manned before trying to take their shipment and if it is, take another route or wait until it is not manned.
 
Drudgewire said:
Working for an employment agency, e-verify is our best friend. It's gotten a lot better at catching stolen identities over the last couple of years. Arizona is one of the states that's supposed to require all new employees to be checked by it but that doesn't mean everyone is.
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This wont stop illegal hiring though, unless the employer wants to call the cops on himself, in which case the cop will have no proof of a crime, since he's not allowed to ask if the person is here legally (at least until this law is implemented)
 
BeAChooser said:
You mean like complete the double fence that Congress funded, but which the Obama administration stopped building? :D
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Those border fences are an absolute waste of resources, unless you're willing to dump a massive amount of money into essentially building the equivalent of the Berlin Wall... for 2000 miles along the U.S.-Mexico border.

Oh yeah, and you'd also have to hire, train, pay, and equip enough guards to patrol said wall. Which would be a large number of people to patrol it realistically.

Good luck with that in this rabid anti-tax environment :rolleyes:

Cleon said:
No, he said "prevent them from entering," not "slow them down for a few minutes."
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Exactly... (start at about the 3:55 mark)

 
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