BNP leaflet through my door

[Eddie Dane]

So I guess that out of the twins in the picture below, you have more in common with the one on the right?

[qimg]http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/9877/twinsgr210206450x300.jpg[/qimg]

By the way, can you explain to me the difference between their cultures?

Oh now you're just being obtuse.

The one on the left has a great sense of rhythm, the one on the right is angry and afraid and votes BNP.

 

[Eddie Dane]

Ah, that would explain why the BNP felt the need to have their puppet Billy Brit start their 'poem' about British Heroes with a verse about Boadicea...


ETA: I should warn that this may induce vomiting.

This is disturbing on sooooo many levels.

At least the Nazis came up with some cool fetish gear.

 

[The Don]

At least the Nazis came up with some cool fetish gear.

......and they were white !



Oh, no, I've been brainwashed (though a light rinse would have sufficed)

 

[Twiler]

You could argue that any success Britain has experienced in the past was due to being continuously invaded by other cultures, that such invasions are virtually a tradition, and thus that anyone who opposes immigration is not patriotic.

I remember seeing a documentary about the BNP. A member's father was asked if they were racist. He responded by saying that there was no evidence. Hmm.

 

[Architect]

You could argue that any success Britain has experienced in the past was due to being continuously invaded by other cultures, that such invasions are virtually a tradition, and thus that anyone who opposes immigration is not patriotic.

 

[wollery]

There is nothing wrong with racial pride. If a black man had said simply "I am proud to be black" we would not be having this conversation. But since I said I am proud to be white, and I would prefer my sons and grandsons to remain white, you call me a racist.

Wrong. A black man saying "I am proud to be black" is just as bad as a white man saying "I am proud to be white". Or do you think it's impossible for non-whites to be racist?

And just what exactly about being black are black people proud of? That they have more melanin in their skin, and don't get sunburn as easily?

I've never understood this argument. Just what is there in one's heritage to be proud of? I'm proud of what my grandfather did in WWII. I'm proud of my grandmother who worked for many years for the Women's Royal Voluntary Service, delivering meals to housebound pensioners. I'm proud of my other grandmother, who raised two children during the war, having to work three jobs to get by, without her husband who was in an internment camp because he was an Austrian national. I'm proud of him for his hard work after the war in order to earn enough money to get both his children well educated. I'm proud of my mother, who spent her life imparting knowledge to children, and doing it very well. I'm proud of my father, who played a major part in setting up a governing body for British Psychotherapists, something that was badly needed.

None of the things I'm proud of about my ancestors has anything to do with their ethnicity. The entire concept of such pride is, to me, unfathomable.

I can tell there is no convincing you otherwise so I am not going to bother trying.

My culture and heritage are just that , MINE. I can define them however I see fit, and I do not need to prove them nor justify my reasoning. I also will not let others use my heritage against me. If I claim Anglican or Saxon, or Roman, or any other heritage, it just gives the hate-speakers more ammo to throw in my face.

Why should anyone throw your racial heritage in your face? The only people who would do that are racists, and racists should be challenged at every opportunity. Their lies and hate should be exposed for all to see, which, let's face it, isn't hard to do.

I in no way preach hate, but I AM allowed a personal preference.

Yes, you are allowed a personal preference, but if your personal preference is based on ethnicity then you are, by definition, a racist.

Anyone that says they have no preference, I call a liar or a mongrel.

No, you're not in any way racist at all!

Oh, and for the record, I have no preference based on race or ethnicity. My wife is pregnant, and expecting our baby in August. Ethnically I'm mostly an Ashkenazi Jew, although there's all sorts of other ethnicities thrown into my genetic make-up. My wife is Han Chinese. What does that make our baby? Damned if I know, and frankly, I don't give a crap. Nor do I give a crap about the ethnicity of the person they might eventually choose to marry. Why should I? What's important in life is to be happy, healthy, and to do the best that you can for your children.

You can call me a liar if you want, but you'd be wrong. I suppose you could call me a mongrel, but that would be a racist thing to say, and as you've already stated, you're not a racist.

And while we're on the subject, can I just ask, if a kid has one white parent and one black parent why are they black? Why does one parent's genetic make-up take precedence over the other? Please, can someone explain that concept to me, because I've never understood it.

 

[chillzero]

Wrong. A black man saying "I am proud to be black" is just as bad as a white man saying "I am proud to be white". Or do you think it's impossible for non-whites to be racist?

While I agree with your other comments on pride, I disagree that pride in one's colour necessarily makes one a racist. Belief that the colour makes them better or more deserving of something - that's racist.

 

[zooterkin]

While I agree with your other comments on pride, I disagree that pride in one's colour necessarily makes one a racist. Belief that the colour makes them better or more deserving of something - that's racist.

Indeed. In a perfect world, you could argue that wollery's opinion was correct. However, in world in which people have been told for years that they are inferior simply for being black (or gay, or whatever), and it's something they should be ashamed of, it is a political statement to stand up and say you are proud of that attribute. One can only hope that at some point in the future, it becomes a non-issue.

 

[Soapy Sam]

A political statement may also be a racist statement. Or an anything statement.
In my jaded opinion, most political statements turn out to be pure self serving nonsense.
And indeed, they do mostly rapidly become non issues. Long may it continue.

 

[wollery]

While I agree with your other comments on pride, I disagree that pride in one's colour necessarily makes one a racist. Belief that the colour makes them better or more deserving of something - that's racist.

Indeed. In a perfect world, you could argue that wollery's opinion was correct. However, in world in which people have been told for years that they are inferior simply for being black (or gay, or whatever), and it's something they should be ashamed of, it is a political statement to stand up and say you are proud of that attribute. One can only hope that at some point in the future, it becomes a non-issue.

Nope, sorry, I disagree.

I ask again, what is there to be proud of? There's certainly nothing to be ashamed about, but why should you have pride in something that you have no control over, that was an inherent quality of you since conception?

You could just as easily say, "I'm not ashamed to be black". Not being ashamed is a very different thing from being proud.

Want to make a political statement? Try this one for size, "I'm black, it's the way I was born. I'm not in any way inferior. I'm not in any way superior. I'm not ashamed of the colour of my skin, and make no apology for it. It's the way I was born. If you don't like the colour of my skin then the problem is yours, not mine, and you know where you can shove your opinion."

No need for pride.

And I ask again, because nobody has provided me with an answer yet - proud of what?

 

[332nd]

Nope, sorry, I disagree.

I ask again, what is there to be proud of? There's certainly nothing to be ashamed about, but why should you have pride in something that you have no control over, that was an inherent quality of you since conception?

So athlete shouldn't be proud if he/she has natural speed or strength? What about someone with a naturally high IQ?

You could just as easily say, "I'm not ashamed to be black". Not being ashamed is a very different thing from being proud.

Would that make you feel better?

Want to make a political statement? Try this one for size, "I'm black, it's the way I was born. I'm not in any way inferior. I'm not in any way superior. I'm not ashamed of the colour of my skin, and make no apology for it. It's the way I was born. If you don't like the colour of my skin then the problem is yours, not mine, and you know where you can shove your opinion."

No need for pride.

And I ask again, because nobody has provided me with an answer yet - proud of what?

Proud of being looked upon as a second class citizen because of skin color/sexual preference/etc... and not only surviving in a society with such attitudes but in many cases thriving.

 

[zooterkin]

Want to make a political statement? Try this one for size, "I'm black, it's the way I was born. I'm not in any way inferior. I'm not in any way superior. I'm not ashamed of the colour of my skin, and make no apology for it. It's the way I was born. If you don't like the colour of my skin then the problem is yours, not mine, and you know where you can shove your opinion."

Snappy! And yet, for some bizarre reason, James Brown went with, "Say it Loud, I'm Black and I'm Proud"...


Actually, I think that you do have a point, in that I agree that 'pride' isn't exactly the right word for the concept being conveyed, but it's caught on. I also can't think of a better one.

 

[wollery]

So athlete shouldn't be proud if he/she has natural speed or strength?

Find me an athlete that hasn't worked their ass off to use that natural ability. If they just sat on their backside they would have nothing to be proud of.

What about someone with a naturally high IQ?

I have a naturally high IQ. I'm not proud of that. I am proud of the way I use it.

Big difference.

Would that make you feel better?
Proud of being looked upon as a second class citizen because of skin color/sexual preference/etc... and not only surviving in a society with such attitudes but in many cases thriving.

What's there to be proud about in being a second class citizen. Pride in thriving despite the circumstances I get, but pride in being considered inferior?

Do what?

 

[Blue Bubble]

I absolutely agree with Wollery. In a similar vein, I find it quite incomprehensible for people to say "I'm proud to be Scottish / English / Irish / American etc. etc.".

 

[Chaos]

Find me an athlete that hasn't worked their ass off to use that natural ability. If they just sat on their backside they would have nothing to be proud of.

I have a naturally high IQ. I'm not proud of that. I am proud of the way I use it.

Big difference.

What's there to be proud about in being a second class citizen. Pride in thriving despite the circumstances I get, but pride in being considered inferior?

Do what?

Bingo!

Being proud of what you´ve made of the deck you´ve been dealt? That´s fine, and everyone has earned his right to be proud of the result of his own hard work.

But being proud of what deck you´ve been dealt? That´s just mind-boggling. And exceedingly dangerous, just from going by the record.

 

[chillzero]

All I was saying that a person who is proud of their race / colour / heritage / whatever is not necerssarily a racist because of that pride. Whether pride is the right term, or is appropriate or not is an entirely separate issue, in my opinion.

People can be proud to be black / white / irish / american / whatever ... and I'll admit to not entirely understanding this myself. It does not make them inherently racist - unless that pride is used as the basis for claiming a right to something, or denying those same rights to others.

 

[Foolmewunz]

I absolutely agree with Wollery. In a similar vein, I find it quite incomprehensible for people to say "I'm proud to be Scottish / English / Irish / American etc. etc.".

Or an Okie from Muskogee....

I think the "pride" thing really originally comes from Black Pride and segued over to the pro-VN war policy crowd and then was picked up by gays (is the big rally in New York still called the Gay Pride parade?).

I think it was just easier to fit into a lyric or on a button than, "Listen people I want you to stop believing the crap that's been dumped on you for two hundred years and stop thinking that there's something wrong with being ______ (insert your choice)." It was easier and more positive to say "proud" than "not ashamed".

That's why it has a certain legitimacy if used by minorities. "Chinese Pride" would be jingoism or flag-waving in China. Chinese Pride in the USA might be an empowerment thing. White Pride anywhere seems to have negative connotations, though. It's hard to think of an area where whites have been a down-trodden minority, which is likely the reason.

 

[Geezer]

The methods of cultural genocide do not have to be violent, or even orchestrated.
You can simply be "bred out", over time.
I am proud of my Saxon heritage, just as a black man may be proud of his African heritage.
I would prefer my son marry a white woman.
This does not make me a racist.
It is not immoral to want your culture to flourish and prosper over other cultures.
I know nothing of the BNP other than what I have read here, and do not support it or oppose it.
I am an American patriot.
Here, we have the freedom to be racist and deny the holocaust, regardless of how much others might disagree with our viewpoint. If enough people agree with the point of view, we are free to enact laws enforcing those views.

Bloody Saxon invader!Saxons go home!Celt Power!

 

[Geezer]

I quoted my Saxon heritage, and yes, it would more accurately be described as Anglo-Saxon, but this was to illustrate that my ancestors came from Germanic tribes instead of Scandinavian tribes.

Quote edited to make a point

Point of order, Scandinavians tribes are Germanic, that's why the Norse myths have the same gods as the rest of the German tribes (Odin=Woden=Wotan), the languages are also germanic.

But what would one expect from an ignorant Saxon peasant ;-)

 

[Soapy Sam]

While nationality is (mostly) an accident over which we have no control, non-nationality is something we may justifiably take satisfaction in.
I'm happy not to be American, Zimbabwean or English for example.
I require no justification for this. I just am.
So there.

Anyway, back OT, yesterdy I read leaflets from UKIP, BNP, Labour, SNP, Conservatives and Lib Dems.

It appears ALL of the above have complete answers to all current and future problems, so it matters not who we vote for.
So I shan't bother my backside voting for any of them.