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Blacks are under Attack!

Caper said:
In Canada. There are problems with Native groups that are entirely genetic. You never seen drunk until you've seen a drunk Inuit. As a group they can't handle it. They didn't evolve with it and when present in some of their communities it can wreak havoc unlike any other group;. The problem is largely genetic. As is a lot of heath issues, that targets their communities more then others. Again. Those problems are genetic and put them as a group on an unequal playing field.
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same in alaska with inuit and aleut communities, and within other native american communities all over the country
 
defaultdotxbe said:
same in alaska with inuit and aleut communities, and within other native american communities all over the country
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Let me ask you the same questions, prior to the introduction of Europeans how many maladaptive Inuit and how many dysfunctional Inuit communities do you think that there were? Do you think the Inuit are inherently unable to flourish in healthy communities? Do you think they are inherently unable to flourish in European based communities?
 
RandFan said:
Let me ask you the same questions, prior to the introduction of Europeans how many maladaptive Inuit and how many dysfunctional Inuit communities do you think that there were? Do you think the Inuit are inherently unable to flourish in healthy communities? Do you think they are inherently unable to flourish in European based communities?
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well its a verifiable fact that native americans have a much higher rate of alcoholism than other ethnic groups (http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/DEPRStrategicPlan/BriefingBook2.htm#A._MINORITIES)

the causes are open to debate, but i dont think they made alcohol before the arrival of europeans (i could be wrong) so its possible that, like smallpox, alcoholism is a disease which they have little resistance to (of course unlike smallpox its a cultural resistance rather than genetic)
 
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RandFan said:
Let me ask you this question, prior to the introduction of Europeans how many maladapative Inuit and how many dysfunctional Inuit communities do you think there were? Do you think the Inuit are inherently unable to flourish in healthy communities?
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Of course not. We were the worst thing that ever happened to them.
 
RandFan said:
This is not supported by the theory of evolution.
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Actually it is. Consider 2 groups of people with similar body mass. A people which evolved in cold climates tend to be short and stocky, all the better to conserve body heat due to less surface area. A people which evolved in a hot climate tend to be taller and thinner, all the better to shed excess body heat since there is more surface area to shed the heat. Natural selection at work.

Taller people have longer limbs and thus longer strides and will be (usually) better runners than short stocky people.

Now, of course there is considerable overlap between the 2 peoples, but as a group people evolved in the Arctic will be stockier than people evolved in hot climates.
 
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defaultdotxbe said:
well its a verifiable fact that native americans have a much higher rate of alcoholism than other ethnic groups (http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/DEPRStrategicPlan/BriefingBook2.htm#A._MINORITIES)

the causes are open to debate, but i dont think they made alcohol before the arrival of europeans (i could be wrong) so its possible that, like smallpox, alcoholism is a disease which they have little resistance to (of course unlike smallpox its a cultural resistance rather than genetic)
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  • Is alcohol the sole factor (you hedge with the "open to debate")?
  • Is the increase in alcoholism solely due to genetics.
  • Could the problems be dynamic (societal problems contribute to alcoholism which contributes to societal problems)?
 
RandFan said:
  • Is alcohol the sole factor (you hedge with the "open to debate")?
  • Is the increase in alcoholism solely due to genetics.
  • Could the problems be dynamic (societal problems contribute to alcoholism which contributes to societal problems)?
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i was simply pointing out that high rates of alcoholism among native peoples exist in the US as well as canada, i have no real opinion of the causes or whether its genetic or cultural. i figured it was mainly cultural but apparently there is a genetic component to alcohol tolerance as well http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_tolerance#Alcohol_tolerance_in_different_ethnic_groups
 
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defaultdotxbe said:
interesting, apparently there is a genetic component to alcohol tolerance
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_tolerance#Alcohol_tolerance_in_different_ethnic_groups
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This has been known for sometime. Look, there are differences in the frequency of alleles between groups (if there were not there would be no differences in skin color, right?). No one is arguing that there is zero genetic difference. That's a red herring. What I'm asking is to what degree environment drives dysfunction in native American communities. What is the degree of maladaptive behavior of native Americans who do not live in such communities.

What I posit is that there is no statistically significant genetic difference to account for the economic disparity. These side shows are not advancing the position that there is statistically genetic differences between groups to justify racial assumptions beyond the superficial.
 
defaultdotxbe said:
i was simply pointing out that high rates of alcoholism among native peoples exist in the US as well as canada, i have no real opinion of the causes or whether its genetic or cultural. i figured it was mainly cultural but apparently there is a genetic component to alcohol tolerance as well http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_tolerance#Alcohol_tolerance_in_different_ethnic_groups
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Fair enough. I just find that it is not advancing the discussion but seems to attempt to demonstrate a racial position that non-whites are inherently inferior to whites and that is a justification not to address problems of inequality.
 
RandFan said:
Fair enough. I just find that it is not advancing the discussion but seems to attempt to demonstrate a racial position that non-whites are inherently inferior to whites and that is a justification not to address problems of inequality.
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If such a position was validated by science, is there any group outside the KKK that would be willing to advance it?
 
WildCat said:
Actually it is. Consider 2 groups of people with similar body mass. A people which evolved in cold climates tend to be short and stocky, all the better to conserve body heat due to less surface area. A people which evolved in a hot climate tend to be taller and thinner, all the better to shed excess body heat since there is more surface area to shed the heat. Natural selection at work.
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Cite?
 
Caper said:
If such a position was validated by science, is there any group outside the KKK that would be willing to advance it?
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There are two propositions here (the fault is mine in the wording). That there is a genetic difference and that the genetic difference would justify the inequality.

  • If there was a genetic difference I think most certainly.
  • Sociobiologists have been advancing controversial and unpopular positions about heritable behavior since liberal activists poured water over E.O. Wilson and chanted "Wilson you are all wet" (of course Wilson never held the positions ascribed to him).
  • As to justification of inequality. I think it wrong to guarantee equality in outcomes. I think what most people, and I particularly want, is equality in opportunity. A level playing field. I had as much opportunity to play professional football as most other people but I did not have the talent. I can live with those types of inequalities. However even if that were true it would not obviate the historic harm caused by racism. That would still need to be addressed, IMO.
 
Guybrush Threepwood said:
Cite?
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Doesn't matter. He's arguing against a straw man. Genetic differences in allele frequencies like those for color are empirical and no one is disputing them. We have been and are talking about statistically significant genetic differences that would justify the belief that economic disparity is genetic. That statistically there is more genetic difference between groups than there is between individuals of groups.
 
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WildCat said:
How so? Do you think large numbers of blacks are being sent to prison for murders actually committed by whites?
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Black people are disproportionately represented in the prison population. While I don't think that's entirely due to bias on the part of the justice system, I could not say with a straight face that no such bias exists.
 
RandFan said:
Doesn't matter. He's arguing against a straw man. Genetic differences in allele frequencies like those for color are empirical and no one is disputing them. We have been and are talking about statistically significant genetic differences that would justify the belief that economic disparity is genetic. That statistically there is more genetic difference between groups than there is between individuals of groups.
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I don't really care about all that. On the suface his claim sounds wrong in several ways (people from hot climates aren't significantly taller and thinner than those from cold ones, if they were there is no way of determining why, I doubt the cooling efficiency is significantly different between different populations anyway). I'd just like to know where he got it from.
I know it's a derail, feel free to ignore it.
 
Guybrush Threepwood said:
I don't really care about all that. On the suface his claim sounds wrong in several ways (people from hot climates aren't significantly taller and thinner than those from cold ones, if they were there is no way of determining why, I doubt the cooling efficiency is significantly different between different populations anyway). I'd just like to know where he got it from.
I know it's a derail, feel free to ignore it.
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I apologize. You have every right to ask the question.
 
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