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Blacks are under Attack!

Mumbles said:
Why would Obama pay anything? The claim here is against *governments*, not against random people walking around. And before you even say it, there are two answers. First, every company's clients will likely pay more if the company get sued. But so what? If I pay for Sony products, and they have to raise their prices because of some disastrous flaw in a product, then that's too bad for me, the end.

Second, you're forgetting that black people in the US have spent a long time paying into the US system, and have had their wealth siphoned off to aid white people. If this is wrong, then the wealth should be given back. if it's okay, then you can't claim umbrage with reparations anyway.
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By "government", you are of course referring to the people. We the people pay for the government to exist. So when you're talking about the government making payments, those payments are coming from certain people to other people. If that's what you believe should happen, just own it.

Your Sony example doesn't hold up because your participation in that company (as a customer or shareholder) is voluntary and you can divest at any time. The same's not true if you don't like how the government spends your money so you decide you'd rather not pay taxes.

I'm not opposed to reparations per se. A good example is that the US government paid $1.6 billion in reparations to Americans who had been incarcerated in prison camps during WWII for the crime of having Japanese ancestry. I think very few people would argue that reparations were due and had to be paid to those Americans who were wrongly imprisoned.

Your claim that wealth was "siphoned off" from black people to white people is simplistic and wrong. A small elite of almost exclusively white people benefited from the system at first, but I think if you went back to the antebellum or Jim Crow days, you wouldn't find that the vast majority of whites were enjoying the benefits of taking money from their black neighbors.

The best thing to do as I see it would be to level the playing field and open opportunities as widely as possible, without regard to ethnicity. I have a proposal that should promote more equality, but somehow I doubt it will gain wide acceptance: start accepting applicants to public universities at random, without regard to grades or SAT scores.
 
ravdin said:
I'm not opposed to reparations per se. A good example is that the US government paid $1.6 billion in reparations to Americans who had been incarcerated in prison camps during WWII for the crime of having Japanese ancestry. I think very few people would argue that reparations were due and had to be paid to those Americans who were wrongly imprisoned.
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But that was paid to people still living. I don't think anyone is opposed to making reparations to living victims, it's when you get to payments to decendants of victims many generations removed that is at issue.
 
WildCat said:
But that was paid to people still living. I don't think anyone is opposed to making reparations to living victims, it's when you get to payments to decendants of victims many generations removed that is at issue.
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im pretty sure you and ravdin are in agreement on this, as it appeared to me that this is the point ravdin was making as well
 
applecorped said:
http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/...n-case-jesse-jackson-20120323,0,2131299.story

"Jackson said that there is a mistaken assumption in some corners of America that all racial problems went away with the election of President Obama. "There was this feeling that we were kind of beyond racism," he said. "That's not true. His victory has triggered tremendous backlash."He added: "Blacks are under attack." African American families are facing record home foreclosures and unemployment. Their children are burdened with student loan debt. States, particularly conservative ones, are passing voter laws that leaders know will disenfranchise blacks and other minorities. Meanwhile, the nation's prisons are brimming with black faces, he said, and their numbers that suggest that the legal system is quicker to send blacks to prison than whites."




Hyperbole, thy name is Jesse.:cool:
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Late to this particular thread, amigo, but what you have quoted there sounds about right... doesn't strike me as hyperbolic at all.
 
Monketey Ghost said:
Late to this particular thread, amigo, but what you have quoted there sounds about right... doesn't strike me as hyperbolic at all.
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the problem i have with the quote is the implication what white and other non-black americans are not facing any of the problems listed, such as home foreclosures, unemployment or student loan debt
 
Blacks Face Bias in Bankruptcy, Study Suggests

Blacks are about twice as likely as whites to wind up in the more onerous and costly form of consumer bankruptcy as they try to dig out from their debts, a new study has found.

The disparity persisted even when the researchers adjusted for income, homeownership, assets and education. The evidence suggested that lawyers were disproportionately steering blacks into a process that was not as good for them financially, in part because of biases, whether conscious or unconscious.
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Add that to the incarceration rates, college debt, unemployment, and all the variations of doing ________ while black.
 
Sword_Of_Truth said:
You're the one moving the goalposts here.
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No. You first said Mormons had a prohibition against slavery. That's wrong. Now you say that Mormons didn't practice slavery. Those two propositions are not the same.

Should whites who were historically victimized be compensated?
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I answered you. Why are you doing this? If they can demonstrate that their loses resulted in long term harm and inequality then YES!

Is there something about that, that you do not understand? Do the words "if" and "yes" have any meaning to you?

I wasn't able to safely travel to Missourri until I was 6.
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Sword, normally I find you reasonable. That is not funny at all. I'm answering you in good faith. Please don't take advantage of that.
 
defaultdotxbe said:
so who exactly is claiming that all racism and all effects of racism ended when obama was elected?
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I've yet to get anyone to acknowledge that racism is still a factor.

  • I have conceded that personal responsibility is important to improving the lives of the disadvantaged.
  • Though I've argued that there are environmental factors and I've demonstrated that I've only met with opposition to that proposition.
So, I take it that you will concede my proposition, am I right?

I'll stipulate that no one has argued that there are no effects of racism. Fair enough?
 
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defaultdotxbe said:
im pretty sure you and ravdin are in agreement on this, as it appeared to me that this is the point ravdin was making as well
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ravdin said:
Yep.
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It's really not about reparations. Oh, it could be but I'm not sure anyone in this thread is arguing that we need to come up with a figure for past wrongs and divide that among the black population in America.

No.

  • Acknowledge that blacks suffer disproportionately due to the legacy of the racism.
  • Try to end the inequality.
  • By all means focus on poverty of all people. It's a false choice to claim we can't do both.
 
defaultdotxbe said:
the problem i have with the quote is the implication what white and other non-black americans are not facing any of the problems listed, such as home foreclosures, unemployment or student loan debt
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I don't think anyone has implied that. The problems in the black community are particularly bad due to institutional racism that has not yet ended. We are arguing that because of that we need to focus on the community to end the problems. No one is saying don't help other people. We can walk and chew gum at the same time. The black community might need targeted assistance so trying to make this a false choice helps no one.
 
RandFan said:
I've yet to get anyone to acknowledge it.

  • I have conceded that personal responsibility is important to improving the lives of the disadvantaged.
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  • I just don't think it will work. Big waste of money that will end up making things worst.


    But your intentions are good.
 
Caper said:
I just don't think it will work. Big waste of money that will end up making things worst.
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Rubbish. Social welfare programs under FDR helped a lot.

Bush the Lesser raised the ecconomic well-being of the banksters and the ecconomy crashed.

Where is the best place to spend the money?
 
RandFan said:
It's really not about reparations. Oh, it could be but I'm not sure anyone in this thread is arguing that we need to come up with a figure for past wrongs and divide that among the black population in America.

No.

  • Acknowledge that blacks suffer disproportionately due to the legacy of the racism.
  • Try to end the inequality.
  • By all means focus on poverty of all people. It's a false choice to claim we can't do both.
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RandFan, isn't this already being done under the guise of affirmative action?
 
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