Black Holes - a request

[~enigma~]

Recently I have been doing some reading about the creation of artificial black holes by Leonhardt and Piwnick through condensates and teh proposed idea through the LHC. Anybody recommend some good reading material about black holes in general and the possibility of creating them in a lab.

 

[DanishDynamite]

Just did a google on the info you provided. Here's what I found. An excerpt:

Physicists could soon create an artificial black hole in a lab, thanks to Ulf Leonhardt of St Andrews University in the UK. Leonhardt has calculated that a beam of light brought to a standstill in a gas should produce a singularity analogous to the event horizon of a black hole. Pairs of photons emitted from the gas would be similar to Hawking radiation, which is thought to emanate from black holes but has never been observed

In other words, this artificial black hole is not a black hole artificially created by humans, but an artificial analog which in some respects is thought to behave as a black hole is thought to behave.

When you said "artificial black hole" I thought you meant the former. Just wanted to clear that up for other posters.

 

[~enigma~]

Just did a google on the info you provided. Here's what I found. An excerpt:
In other words, this artificial black hole is not a black hole artificially created by humans, but an artificial analog which in some respects is thought to behave as a black hole is thought to behave.

When you said "artificial black hole" I thought you meant the former. Just wanted to clear that up for other posters.

Yes...that is the method of Leonhardt and Piwnick but for a more thourough understanding of what they propose read this link

To see another propose method for creating artificial black holes, read here

 

[DanishDynamite]

Yes...that is the method of Leonhardt and Piwnick but for a more thourough understanding of what they propose read this link

To see another propose method for creating artificial black holes, read here

Thanks. Your second link was especially interresting. It discussed what I thought you were refering to, namely actual black holes artificially created.

I had no idea that this would possibly be within the scope of the LHC.

The article says not to worry. I have to admit there is a slight chill running up my back.

 

[Yllanes]

Another proposal is a sonic analog in a Bose-Einstein condensate. I think there are some articles on this freely available out there for the non specialist, but I can't find them. The only free articles I can find right now are too technical (the actual preprints for the research papers). This is another technical review on analogue gravity in general.

 

[Yllanes]

Thanks. Your second link was especially interresting. It discussed what I thought you were refering to, namely actual black holes artificially created.

I had no idea that this would possibly be within the scope of the LHC.

The article says not to worry. I have to admit there is a slight chill running up my back.

As the article says, if the LHC is capable of doing that, then black hole creation is already taking place all the time in our atmosphere, due to cosmic rays, with no consequences.

 

[DanishDynamite]

As the article says, if the LHC is capable of doing that, then black hole creation is already taking place all the time in our atmosphere, due to cosmic rays, with no consequences.

True. But the black holes which may be created by cosmic rays are not under the control of mere humans.

It's the possibilities which worry me.

 

[~enigma~]

As the article says, if the LHC is capable of doing that, then black hole creation is already taking place all the time in our atmosphere, due to cosmic rays, with no consequences.

Feel like recommending some good books about black holes?

 

[~enigma~]

As the article says, if the LHC is capable of doing that, then black hole creation is already taking place all the time in our atmosphere, due to cosmic rays, with no consequences.

Guess our DanishDynamite friend is afraid someone might not be content to create a microscopic sized black hole and they might create one with a radius of (2 * G * mass of Earth) / (c^2) or about 9 mm. Come to think of it, that would be a hell of a way to go...

 

[Schneibster]

Try this one, it's by Hawking and Kip Thorne, two of the better gravity physicists alive.

 

[FaisonMars]

Feel like recommending some good books about black holes?

Black Holes and Times Warps by Kip Thorne

 

[Yllanes]

Feel like recommending some good books about black holes?

What kind of background do you have? There are many free lecture notes on GR available on the internet, some of them quite self-contained and accesible. There are also some very good introductory GR books.

One very good example, from a world class expert, is Schutz's A First Course in General Relativity. From the preface

The student is assumed already to have studied: special relativity,
including the Lorentz transformation and relativistic mechanics;
Euclidean vector calculus; ordinary and simple partial differential
equations; thermodynamics and hydrostatics; Newtonian gravity (simple
stellar structure would be useful but not essential); and enough
elementary quantum mechanics to know what a photon is.

The best introductory book on SR is still Spacetime Physics, from Taylor and Wheeler. It can be followed with only high school math and provides a very solid understanding of the theory. Of course, no BH there, but felt like mentioning it.

 

[Schneibster]

Black Holes and Times Warps by Kip Thorne

Jinx!!!!

ETA: And Hawking had a hand in it, too. At least according to Amazon.

 

[~enigma~]

What kind of background do you have? There are many free lecture notes on GR available on the internet, some of them quite self-contained and accesible. There are also some very good introductory GR books.

One very good example, from a world class expert, is Schutz's A First Course in General Relativity. From the preface



The best introductory book on SR is still Spacetime Physics, from Taylor and Wheeler. It can be followed with only high school math and provides a very solid understanding of the theory. Of course, no BH there, but felt like mentioning it.

Degree in Chemistry.

 

[Yllanes]

Degree in Chemistry.

Then you should be able to tackle Schutz's book. I don't know the book Schneibster and mfaison recommended, but Kip Thorne is certainly one of the biggest experts in GR, so it should be good if you don't want a textbook, but a lighter exposition.

 

[~enigma~]

Do you guys have an opinion on this book?

 

[Schneibster]

Don't know the book, but the authors are two highly respected physicists.

 

[~enigma~]

Don't know the book, but the authors are two highly respected physicists.

At the moment I am undecided as to Yllanes recommendation or this one. Maybe Spacetime Physics at some time also.

 

[Yllanes]

At the moment I am undecided as to Yllanes recommendation or this one. Maybe Spacetime Physics at some time also.

The authors of Spacetime Physics are also responsible for your latest candidate, as you have no doubt noticed. This may make the transition from SR to GR smoother. Do you have access to any of these books at a local library? If so, the best thing to do is check them yourself and choose. If you don't, neither is going to be a bad book, the only risk is that they may not match your precise interests.

 

[~enigma~]

The authors of Spacetime Physics are also responsible for your latest candidate, as you have no doubt noticed. This may make the transition from SR to GR smoother. Do you have access to any of these books at a local library? If so, the best thing to do is check them yourself and choose. If you don't, neither is going to be a bad book, the only risk is that they may not match your precise interests.

Considering the authors, I may just go ahead and buy Exploring Black Holes: Introduction to General Relativity since I have free 2 day delivery from Amazon.com. Not sure how i found this book seeing that it wasn't one that was recommended but you guys put me in the right direction. Thanks, I'll let you guys know how I find the book. The reviews seem good so far.

ETA - I live in Baytown Texas. You really must be kidding to think the library here has any decent books on GR that are more recent than 1950