Bjarne on: Dark Energy, only an illusion.

[W.D.Clinger]

I have before asked how space can bend.

Several of us have already presented simple explanations of intrinsic curvature, from which you have evidently learned nothing.

Is space bending;

1. To the right ?
2. To the left ?
3. Upwards ?
4. Inwards ?

You can’t answer these questions simply because the expression: “bends” is rubbish.

That's a natural question to ask when you're completely ignorant of intrinsic curvature in non-Euclidean manifolds.

When a two-dimensional manifold has intrinsic curvature, there is no direction within the manifold itself in which the manifold could be said to bend. To explain that situation to someone who cannot conceive of non-Euclidean geometry, we must embed the manifold within a Euclidean geometry of higher dimension. Then (and only then) will we be able to describe the curvature by a vector that is normal (perpendicular) to the manifold. In other words, the bending is in the direction of a higher (third) dimension.

With four-dimensional spacetime, the situation is more complicated. Not only is the geometry non-Euclidean, it isn't even Riemannian; it's pseudo-Riemannian. The Whitney embedding theorem^WP says we can embed an arbitrary four-dimensional spacetime within the Euclidean geometry of eight-dimensional real vector space, but that embedding doesn't preserve the metric. The bottom line: Embedding spacetime within a Euclidean space of higher dimensions creates as many problems as it solves.

If you're unable to wrap your head around the concept of intrinsic curvature in non-Euclidean manifolds, then it would be unwise to feign expertise in general relativity or gravitation.

 

[Bjarne]

Mass makes all directions "longer"

Finally you understood it
Let us call this stretching space, and let us therefore for heaven’s sake scrap the clumsy “bended” space fantasy. - this expression is unnecessary clumsy rubbish.

RC you are ready to the next step now.
Tell me now what is the difference between; “longer directions", - due the mass make distances longer (your word), - and stretches distances / space due to mass consumes pulls space-distances longer (my word)?

WHAT exactly are the differences?

Next question:
Now tell me are there any differences between, longer direction due to mass, and longer direction due to the expanding Universe?

Last question:
Honestly; can you really not see we are talking about the exact same stretching property of space?

When a two-dimensional manifold has intrinsic curvature, there is no direction within the manifold itself in which the manifold could be said to bend

And since there are no certain direction whereby the deformation happens, - it mean space is not bending, but more correct expressed; - it is stretching.

This is not so strange since we already know that stretching space is already a well known reality / a well know property of space.

Hence there is NO REASON to invent more different unnecessary clumsy space properties; - these will ONLY confuse us self.

Already here it clearly shines through; that GR is not completed.

GR must also comprehend the expanding Universe, which mean; - in the same rate that space expand, time is ticking proportional slower. THIS is the true understanding of cosmological redshift (CR).

CR is NOT a Doppler-Effect (DE) since there is NO speed involved (due to the expanding Universe), - not in that moment a photon leaves a star, - and also not in that moment it hit a planet billion of years later.

Attempt to understand the phenomena as DE is so silly I can’t find ugly enough word for it.

Furthermore photons are NOT losing energy; it is completely unacceptable even to suggest such possible.

The CR mystery solves itself exactly in that moment when we extend the GR-math – to comprehend the expanding Universe as well. – And we do have very good reason doing so.
In that moment it is clear that CR is caused due to that time MUST have been ticking slower in the past. – Any other attempts to explain CR is far below Cow IQ.
The absorption pattern of CR is simply; - timestamps from the past, - and only that.

When the universe expands also the photons wavelength expands and everything else.
Hence everything always seems the same, - and therefore the expansion itself is NOT the cause of CR, - ONLY time difference is responsible for which photons energy that was absorbed in the past.

Shortly, - when time is changing, the photon energy (frequencies) per long or short second are changing too, and so are the CR absorption patterns.

There are so much, - that from many directions, - shows us that Mother Cow is absolutely right.

We have to throw a good parts of our picture of the world, out of the window, and be just a little more humble when mother cow tries to help us out of the clumsy bended darkness.

 

[Paulhoff]

RUN PEOPLE RUN

Paul

 

[Reality Check]

Finally you understood it
Let us call this stretching space, and let us therefore for heaven’s sake scrap the clumsy “bended” space fantasy. - this expression is unnecessary clumsy rubbish.

RC you are ready to the next step now.
Tell me now what is the difference between; “longer directions", - due the mass make distances longer (your word), - and stretches distances / space due to mass consumes pulls space-distances longer (my word)?

WHAT exactly are the differences?

You still do not understand it.
The difference is

• Curvature of spacetime makes all directions longer and makes objects accelerate thus gravity.
• Stretching of spacetime makes all directions longer and does not make objects accelerate thus no gravity.

Only an truly delusional person would think that stretching spacetime will produce gravity:

Curved space is not contracted space.
First posted 11 November 2009 (11 months of delusion from Bjarne and counting...).
​

...ignorant rant snipped....

Bjarne's "central gravity" completely debunked!
The fatal flaws and basic ignorance in Bjarne's ideas in his threads
(original full list to which more points have been linked)​

 

[Mister Earl]

Light always follows a perfectly straight path in space. If it doesn't hit any matter of course. Light can't bend. It follows a straight path through bent space. Light has a subjective duration of zero.

 

[phunk]

Minor correction there, it follows a straight path in spacetime. In 3d space, it's path is indeed bent by gravity.

 

[Reality Check]

...
When the universe expands also the photons wavelength expands and everything else.
...

Wow - a miracle: Bjarne actually got something right in the midst of all that gibberish !

The expansion of the universe means that everything (spacetime) is expanding. The wavelength's of light expand and thus cosmological redshift. Everything else expands as well.

But then he spoils it by repeating his inability to understand the simple fact that at local scales, gravity pulls things together so that we do not see any measurable effects of the expanding universe until we look beyond the Local Group.
This of course has been explained to him many times. He really should get the mother cow that he thinks talks to him to explain it.

 

[Bjarne]

gravity pulls things together so that we do not see any measurable effects of the expanding universe until we look beyond the Local Group.

Where is the evidence?

It is wishful thinking, if you believe that gravity and the electromagnetic force counteracts the expanding space, on a local scale.
EVERYTHING EXPANDS, the atom, the photon, the meter stick and space.
Why ?
Because of the Universe is nothing , - but space density + energy (and cows).

Get use to it.

I will prove it.

 

[Paul]

I will prove it.

There's a first time for everything.

 

[Reality Check]

Where is the evidence?

Start with the fact that the Andromeda Galaxy (and a few other galaxies) is blue-shifted not red-shifted and may collide with the Milky Way in about 4.5 billion years.

Bjarne's "central gravity" completely debunked!
The fatal flaws and basic ignorance in Bjarne's ideas in his threads
(original full list to which more points have been linked)​

 

[AcesHigh]

Your calculation is wrong. The moon is about 10^-14 Mpc away from the earth on average. Therefore, if it were moving with the Hubble flow (it isn't and shouldn't be), its velocity with respect to earth would be - using the correct value of H - (10^-14 Mpc)(74 km/(s*Mpc)) = 7 10^-10 m/s = 2 cm per year.

Actually that would be very easily detectable (the precision to which the earth-moon distance is known is astonishing), but it isn't happening - just as is correctly predicted by general relativity.

sorry, but isnt the moon getting 4cm more distant from Earth each year?

 

[Reality Check]

sorry, but isnt the moon getting 4cm more distant from Earth each year?

I think that the point in this old post is that the Moon is receding from the Earth exactly as predicted by Newtonian gravity and GR, i.e. at 4 cm per year.
If the expansion of the universe had a local effect then the Moon would be receding at 6 cm per year.

 

[Bjarne]

Start with the fact that the Andromeda Galaxy (and a few other galaxies) is blue-shifted not red-shifted and may collide with the Milky Way in about 4.5 billion years.

Andromeda is approaching the Milkyway, Yes

In the case we can use DE, because to “objects” approach each other and speed is involved.

Expanding space do not cause galaxies to speed up.

Hence you can’t compare these 2 phenomena’s.

1. Curvature of spacetime makes all directions longer and makes objects accelerate thus gravity.
2. Stretching of spacetime makes all directions longer and does not make objects accelerate thus no gravity.

Gravity (mass attraction) and speed due to that, - is caused by the stretch difference / per meter (the strecth level difference per distance) in a certain direction. (seen from the perspective of an object) .

The expanding Space is not expanding / stretching in one certain direction.
Hence you shall ONLY judge what happens with SPACE it self in both these cases, and not judge what a object does as a result of the strech level difference / per distance...

To make it simpler to understand....
I could also have ask what is the difference between the stretch (10 cm) of a cow in one direction, compared to the stretch of the same cow in two directions ( 2 * 5 cm) ??

I believe after 17 years at the University the math should be possible for you to understand.

sorry, but isnt the moon getting 4cm more distant from Earth each year?

The cause of this is well known, it is due to a special tidal effect.
There are no spaces left to comprehend the effect of the expanding universe.

Which mean that both gravity (and also the electromagnetic force) both exactly "should" counteracts the influence cause but the expanding space. (Such is nothing but naive speculations.)

If the expansion of the universe had a local effect then the Moon would be receding at 6 cm per year.

• Why should space locally be an exception?
• Are you sure it is 6 cm ?
• Where are your source ?

I remember in this thread, we have calculated it to + 5 cm due to the expanding space.

Anyway the reason to that is we cannot measure anything, - is that everything expands proportion.

I mean this conclusion is so obvious logic, because of several reasons;

According to the Bigbang once the Universe seems to have been smaller like an atom.
Imaging a BigChrunh, - this is the exactly opposite of the Big Bang, - now if a such would start now, - what would happen with a cow?
Well it MUST shrink proportional with the Universe, otherwise the Universe would at a certain point begins to be smaller than the cow.
Which mean all distances MUST shrink when the Universe does.

Furthermore there is NOTHING that indicates that the expanding / stretching property of space allowing space to expand due to the expanding Universe, - is different – from the expanding / stretching property of space allowing space to expand due to gravity.

All this contradicts the pretty naive picture of the Universe "we" have.

And worse at all, - we have even not considered the consequences of:

How would the Universe look like if both the cow and the universe expands (and shrinks) proportional hand in hand?

This emphasizes how silly, coincidence, and half brained the picture of the Universe really is.

To all that, - add the fact that the world’s most snot stupid animal would never accept that photons are losing energy, - or that space literally really bends.

I mean; is it really possible anything can be more half brained like that ?

 

[Reality Check]

Andromeda is approaching the Milkyway, Yes

In the case we can use DE, because to “objects” approach each other and speed is involved.

Expanding space do not cause galaxies to speed up.

Wrong.
Expanding spacetime does cause "galaxies to speed up". In the case we can use physics, because to “objects” go away from each other and speed is involved.

The expanding Space is not expanding / stretching in one certain direction.

The expanding Space is expanding in all certain directions.

The cause of this is well known, it is due to a special tidal effect.

It is fact due to the tidal effect.

Which mean that both gravity (and also the electromagnetic force) both exactly "should" counteracts the influence cause but the expanding space. (Such is nothing but naive speculations.)

What do you mean by this?
My guess is that you are stating exactly what has been told to you: gravity and also the electromagnetic force and also the nuclear counteract the expansion. Such is the physical observations:

1. We measure that the universe is expanding at large scales.
2. There is no expansion measured locally because EM and gravity keeps things together

• Why should space locally be an exception?
• Are you sure it is 6 cm ?
• Where are your source ?

I remember in this thread, we have calculated it to + 5 cm due to the expanding space.

The sorce is this thread ( + 5 cm due to the expanding space + a bit more).

Anyway the reason to that is we cannot measure anything, - is that everything expands proportion.

everything does globally expand.
There is no expansion locally, e.g. if I have a meter long ruler it remains as a meter long ruler because the forces keeping it together are emormously bigger than the expansion.
And then there is the fact that we use "rulers" to actually measure the expansion!


Try to learn some basic physics, Bjarne

1. We measure that the universe is expanding (so it has no effect on "rulers").
2. There is no expansion measured locally because EM and gravity keeps things together

Bjarne's "central gravity" completely debunked!
The fatal flaws and basic ignorance in Bjarne's ideas in his threads
(original full list to which more points have been linked)​

 

[Bjarne]

Wrong.
Expanding spacetime does cause "galaxies to speed up". In the case we can use physics, because to “objects” go away from each other and speed is involved.

Expanding space is as the expression says; Space that expand.

It have NOTHING to do with speed.

That speculation is just one more nuts invention we need to get our picture of the Universe to fit.

What do you mean by this?
My guess is that you are stating exactly what has been told to you: gravity and also the electromagnetic force and also the nuclear counteract the expansion. Such is the physical observations:

The physical observation is cheating you.
You have no reason to belive that anything should be a exception form the universel expansion - the meter stick too expand propotional, therefore you can not meausre any diffrence, and therefore you are cheated.

There is no expansion measured locally because EM and gravity keeps things together.

The fact is that everything expand with the same rate.

There is no expansion locally, e.g. if I have a meter long ruler it remains as a meter long ruler because the forces keeping it together are emormously bigger than the expansion.

Soon, my friend, you will understand that gravity and the expanding space are united.

This will soon be certain knowledge.

This day you'll understand that gravity can impossible counteract the expanding space, - simply because gravity and the expanding space is both one and the same stretching property,

Hence believing these can counteract will soon be understood as a (self-) contradiction.

The old idea; that gravity counteracts, are domed to fall.

A little later we will also understand that also the electromagnetic force or the nuclear also NOT counteract the expansion of the Universe, since also these are woven into space.

It is pretty easy to prove that gravity is nothing but stretched space.
This acknowledgment is inevitable and I can guarantees you I will prove it.

So soon we fully understand that matter must contract space, and therefore forcing space near matter to stretch, we will also be force to ask and answer:

HOW does matter contract space

>> http://www.science27.com/english/quantum_physics.html

So understanding gravity does in many way start a chain reaction.

We will be force to understand;

• Contracted space = matter.
• Space density penetrates and created everything.
• Space density = everything there is.

Therefore; - when space is changing its; "shape /density” matter MUST do the same.

So, - because both gravity and matter both are; space density, - both these MUST stretch too, - when the space density gets “thinner” /stretch - due to the expanding space.

The problem is many times ; that we are so use to think physical,- but in fact that "physical" is NOTHING, but space density, - exactly like everything else.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As a man who has devoted his whole life to the most clear headed science, to the study of matter, I can tell you as a result of my research about atoms this much: There is no matter as such. All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter.

I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness.
Max Planck

Just beautiful, - even mother cow could't have expressed it so nice

 

[Reality Check]

Expanding space is as the expression says; Space that expand.

That is right: Space that expand is space that expands !
I agree! Space that expand is space that expands !
It is obvious.

It have NOTHING to do with speed.

It has SOMETHING to do with measurements of velocity (speed).
If space expands then galaxies will move away from each other. This results in a velocity (speed). That has been measured. Thus space expands.

The physical observation is cheating you.

The physical observations are

1. We measure that the universe is expanding at large scales.
2. There is no expansion measured locally because EM and gravity keeps things together

These physical observations are made with the same "ruler" (light).

Your idea that the "ruler" also expands and so we will never measure an expansion. We do so you idea is wrong.

The fact is that everything expand with the same rate.

The fact is that is alnost right!

• The entire universe expands.
• EM, gravity and nuclear forces pulls things together again. Thus we measure that the universe is expanding at large scales and there is no expansion measured locally
• But the rate has changed. It used to be slower and has been measured to be increasing.

Soon, my friend, you will understand that gravity and the expanding space are united.

Too late my friend.
General relativity has already "united" gravity and expanding space.

As a man who has devoted his whole life to the most clear headed science, to the study of matter, I can tell you as a result of my research about atoms this much: There is no matter as such. All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter.

I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness.
Max Planck

Just beautiful, - even mother cow could't have expressed it so nice

I agree. Nice poetry. Pity that there is no science in it.

Bjarne's "central gravity" completely debunked!
The fatal flaws and basic ignorance in Bjarne's ideas in his threads
(original full list to which more points have been linked)​

 

[Bjarne]

It has SOMETHING to do with measurements of velocity (speed).
If space expands then galaxies will move away from each other. This results in a velocity (speed). That has been measured. Thus space expands

Doppler Effect (DE) is a result of relative speed-difference, - and hence not due to true speed.

If you move against a sound wave you will meet each wave a little faster.
The opposite happens when you move away from a sound wave.

It is the exactly same principle if you moves towards or away form a light wave.
Hence you will meet each wave a little earlier or later. – This is what Doppler Effect is about.

As you can see this is based on that you (or the wave) source moves towards or away from you. And this is therefore based on relative motion through space.

BUT Cosmological Redshift (CR) is different, and can’t be compared to DE since expanding space is not the same as motion.

The simple reasons to the confusion are first at all; you don’t know what EM waves really are , - or how these travel (so fast) in space.

Imaging these are only pulsations in the space density.
Now, due to that space is stretching the wavelength of these space pulsation are stretching too. This is all what happens.

DE only applies due to relative speed, but ONLY comprehending phenomena’s where true motion are involved.

So soon you understand that everything expands proportional, you are force to give the idea that DE and CR is related phenomena’s.

Simply because that when distances always remains the same, there are no relative speed difference between object , - (due to the expanding space) .

So it is the whole basic foundation that is wrong.

You have good reason to change your mind.
You can easy insure yourself (after 1 days ADG measurement) in the biggest building in NZ or Australia (etc) that we have failed to understand that bended space is fact stretched space.

Hence we have also failed to see that the expanding Universe and gravity are a unity.

So simple objective research can easy convince you; that gravity cannot counteract the expanding Universe.

A consequence of that: since we do not observe that the distance for example between the Moon and the earth expands every year (6cm) – the mean something MUST be “wrong” with the meter stick. – The meter stick MUST expand too. There are no other possibilities.

But don’t worry, - you have not only the right, but you are at this point force to “import” the GR-math so that this also comprehend the expanding Universe, whereby TIME difference (math) so nicely explain the true cause of CR.

Now ask me are there really some kind of huge main thread for this, which you objective can see.

Yes there are...
Look at the Earth, the true cause of the HUGE force responsible for creating mountains; - is gravity.
And loom at Mars, - the HUGE canyon on mars is also created due to the same reason.

Because changing's of the background gravity (by Perihelion) affects everything nearby proportional with the already existing stretch factor, - the Earth also expands more in its central area than at its surface. – The same is the case for Mars.

I have calculated these influences and it fits mathematically.

http://www.science27.com/english/background_gravity.html

There are BIG signs here on the planet and on Mars that these planets crack due to periodical gravity difference.

All this are consequences of only 1 day’s measurements.

So RC, you know people at the University, - Instead of repeating the old mossy orthodox creeds everyday. Why do you not go and measure if gravity really bends or if it is more correct to understand that gravity stretches space.

1 days measurement and the question inside you head should be settle.

BUT please do me a favour, measure the exact floor height, and do NOT manipulate these at pleasure. And please respect the FAG too.

I have predicted that ADG inside a homogenous mass is NOT decreasing, but stable, ONLY based on the understanding that gravity is a space vacuum, and we therefore MUST replace “bend” with “stretch” - as well as we MUST united the expanding space and GR. – Thereby the misunderstood CR will automatically fall and MUST be replaced by already existing GR-mathematics.

Finally, - When we speak about DE I assume we both agree we speak about relative speed differences.
For example if we both moves away from each other (totally 20km/h) - both off us must then move 10 km/h (when we both moves away from each other with the same speed.)

I believe you agree to that.

Now imaging; galaxy A and B there are 28 Billon LY between and tell me now; - do you belive that these two galaxies moves away from each other with a speed faster than light ?.

Can you really not see that when mixing DE and CR it (sooner or later) gives you a new HUGE problem, - ( I mean at least, not a single cow belives that a galaxy or a cow can not move so fast). ?

So I guess you will say ; Yeeehhh mann, - but this speed happen only in a hypocritical 27 dimension between the hiigs, the 414 th dark galaxy, and the parallels Universe.

Or you would say; Yeeehhh mann the Universe will stop to expand exactly when there is 27874 billion LY between two galaxies.

Or you would say Yeeehhh mann galaxy A and B will be ripped apart due to the HUUGGGE speed, and the milkyway is next ?

OR WHAT would you say ?

At least you know cows would never buy such conflict-ridden load.

My friend, - I have a better religion for you, all the cows in the world and me are already full members, - come and join us, every new human will get a layer cake.

 

[Paulhoff]

Yes there are...
Look at the Earth, the true cause of the HUGE force responsible for creating mountains; - is gravity.
And loom at Mars, - the HUGE canyon on mars is also created due to the same reason.

Earth, plate tectonics for the mountains, simple.

Mars, the cooling of Mars billions of years ago causing the shinkage of the crust and the great canyon, again simple.

Run people Run, Run Run Run.

Paul

 

[phunk]

Doppler Effect (DE) is a result of relative speed-difference, - and hence not due to true speed.

Relative speed is the only kind of speed. There is no such thing as "true speed".

 

[Bjarne]

Earth, plate tectonics for the mountains, simple.

No it is not simple, convection do not have the power to rise 8000 km mountains or subduct a continent. ONLY Gravity have that much power.

Mars, the cooling of Mars billions of years ago causing the shinkage of the crust and the great canyon, again simple. .

If Mars have only shrunk it would have created small mountains, and maybe small subduction. This is not the cause of the canyon of Mars….

The orbit of mars is very elliptical; hence there is a relative large gravity difference between aphelion and perihelion.

For those that really want to know the real cause to the seduction on earth and the cause of the big canyon on mars, read this > http://www.science27.com/english/background_gravity.html

Relative speed is the only kind of speed. There is no such thing as "true speed".
The definition of real speed is :

1. Motion through space.
2. Speed compared to the speed of light.

The expanding Universe has NOTHING to do with true speed / motion. – The mix of DE and CR is disgrace of the intelligence of the human race. – That it is possible to sink so deep is beyond every possible ugly expression.