Bjarne on: Dark Energy, only an illusion.

[erlando]

But this thread is just a classic example proving how unreasonable stubborn scientific creeds really are...........

Pot - Kettle - Black.

 

[Paulhoff]

Off course I am, people that tells the truth are always “crazy”..

No, that is not true at all.

I for one am not crazy.

Paul

 

[MRC_Hans]

If such exist near Domus I believe it is in the underground, the effect would be negative, because the density is much less that the density of the underground.

(Water tank for sprinkler system) No, they are usually above ground, to allow gravity feed. Otherwise, you need a whopping big diesel pump.

But, of course, cow scientists don't have to actually know things.

So such as well as a cellar could explain the suddenly ADG decrease at ground floor.

No, it would not. But, of course, cow scientists don't need to understand the theories they are tring to disprove.

Sometimes I believe you are really downright crazy, - since you either; cannot /don’t want/are too lazy, - to calculate the consequence of let say: if the gravimeter at ground floors should be standing right on the top of one of the concrete pillar.

Where have I suggested that the effect is due to the gravimeter standing on a pillar? I'm saying that there is a large mass in the vicinity.

And once again; - worse at all, - you still cannot explain that ADG is +0.282 mgal at 1st floor and “only” 0.181 mgal at ground floor. – Whereby you still have a HUGE problem to explain where the + 0.100 mgal at 1st floor comes from.

The precision of your measurements is not sufficient to bother about a 0.1mGal difference. You can only try to conclude from more general trends.

But, of course, cow scientists don't need to bother about measurement uncertainty.

you cannot """"connect ground floor / the fundation (+0.181mGal) to the first floor (+0.282mGal) """ since there is no measurable “ground connection” from 1st floor to ground floor.

Ground connection? What is that supposed to mean? What would you need a ground connection for?

I still believe the last opinion is correct, but YES I too must be prepared for surprises, BUT far from so HUGE as you must be prepared for.

Bjarne, read up on thermodynamics, Then you will see that a 'huge surprise' is.

This week, we will get new height measurement from Domus Vista, -My friend Cristian will also try to see if he can check the carrying walls thickness, and floor thickness inside the building , (not at the stair case) - and if there is a cellar.

Bjarne, you are such an amateur. Get the ******* drawings, for pete's sake! You know, real engineers make drawings before they build a big house like that. The drawings will have been submitted to the authorities for approval prior to building, and they will be in the archives. They will be publicly available.

Do some decent research, for a change.

And before you spend time and money on more measuring, design a proper protocol. (If you don't know the meaning of that word, look it up)

I too must bend my head for objective measurement, - this is the scientific methods, - you too should respect this, - but this thread is just a classic example proving how unreasonable stubborn scientific creeds really are...........

Bjarne, I deeply respect scientific work, and I look forward to the day you will do some of that. I'm not holding my breath, however.

Hans

 

[Bjarne]

(Water tank for sprinkler system) No, they are usually above ground, to allow gravity feed. Otherwise, you need a whopping big diesel pump.

So you believe the tanks in the top of the building?
And you can then not see it is more than cow stupid to mention that these should affect ADG at ground floor, since this is the context where you brought that in.
But well confusion have always been yours specialty.

Where have I suggested that the effect is due to the gravimeter standing on a pillar? I'm saying that there is a large mass in the vicinity

ØØhhh so you want to measure positive ADG due to the concrete pillars, without having a gravimeter standing above the pillars.
Is that not similar to believe you can milk a cow without touching its teats.

The precision of your measurements is not sufficient to bother about a 0.1mGal difference. You can only try to conclude from more general trends.

Even chickens wouldn’t come to such silly conclusion.

Ground connection? What is that supposed to mean? What would you need a ground connection for?

Did you notice the; “”””
Answer: to determinate where the strong ADG on all the lower floors originates.

Bjarne, you are such an amateur. Get the ******* drawings, for pete's sake! You know, real engineers make drawings before they build a big house like that. The drawings will have been submitted to the authorities for approval prior to building, and they will be in the archives. They will be publicly available.

I have already ask, there is a price to pay.
BUT drawings are not necessary yet because both senile and brain damage silly chicken and cows can already see a very clear pattern.

All this will for these intelligent animals be crystal clear, when the silo measurement experiment is finish.
But still brainwashed humans will (according to Max Planck) never understand, they will die together will the holy orthodox concrete creeds, - doesn’t matter how many drawing and proves I provides.

Bjarne, I deeply respect scientific work, and I look forward to the day you will do some of that. I'm not holding my breath, however

And Johannes Kepler held his telescope in front of the eyes of the holy orthodox priests; - No Venus was not orbiting the Sun, impossible. This was not objective science.
Amen.

Also in these days, - really not so long ago,- there was not anything cows could do to help the pitiful human race.
And notice cows did not laugh at all of the poor human race and have never done so, they had deeply compassion all the times. Cows are much too intelligent to be silly arrogant.

 

[MRC_Hans]

So you believe the tanks in the top of the building? And you can then not see it is more than cow stupid to mention that these should affect ADG at ground floor, since this is the context where you brought that in.

No, I don't think it is, because most of the upper building is apartments, and there is not normally sprinkler systems installed in apartments.

The lowest floors, however, are shops and offices, so a tank may be above them, just around where you find the gravity peak.

ØØhhh so you want to measure positive ADG due to the concrete pillars, without having a gravimeter standing above the pillars.

Deliberate misinterpretation. On the pillar =/= above the pillar.

Is that not similar to believe you can milk a cow without touching its teats.

Tits. However, ulike cow tits, gravity does work across open spaces, so, no Bjarne, it would not be the same.

Even chickens wouldn’t come to such silly conclusion.

Bjarne, you make a big enough fool out of yourself with all your cow nonsense. Better leave out the chickens.

Did you notice the; “”””
Answer: to determinate where the strong ADG on all the lower floors originates.

How is that a "ground connection" even with """? I don't know exactly where the extra gravity comes from, and you don't know it. However, no even reasonably consistent theory of gravity can explain it without assuming one or several localized masses.

I have already ask, there is a price to pay.

So what? You are paying for measurements. But reality is that you don't want to see the drawing, because it would no doubt put a nice hole through all your speculations.

Hans

 

[Bjarne]

Bjarne, you make a big enough fool out of yourself with all your cow nonsense. Better leave out the chickens.

Chicken knows what is up and down.
I am not sure you understand this.

 

[erlando]

Chicken knows what is up and down.
I am not sure you understand this.

Thank you for reminding me why you were on my ignore list and why I unsubscribed from this nonsense.

I urge others to do the same. Let him fantasize alone.

 

[MRC_Hans]

Thank you for reminding me why you were on my ignore list and why I unsubscribed from this nonsense.

I urge others to do the same. Let him fantasize alone.

You are right, of course. But we all have this urge to stop and look at disasters.

Still, it is actually possible to learn something from this....:

I have thought of something: When I make my curve of the gravity contribution from the building, I assume that the height of each floor is the same. This may be wrong; I think I read somewhere that the lower floors of that building are higher (originally there was a hotel there). Since the free air gradient for even a single floor is a large value compared to the gravity of the building, if the elevation shift is underestimated, we will calculate a too high gravity constant from the building.

Hans

 

[Bjarne]

Thank you for reminding me why you were on my ignore list and why I unsubscribed from this nonsense. I urge others to do the same. Let him fantasize alone.

Everything begins with fantasy, you house, your friends, you enemies, you car, you family, you job, and even the universe and reality you see, and off course also; “the curvature of space” and everything you know about gravity.

Unfortunately much of yours reality could even be nothing but authoritarian turbo fantasy, nothing with the reality to do; for example; the 10 billion USD higgs, gravition, dark galaxies, plenty dimension, parallel universes, and all what belong to these abstraction.

Soon my friend many people (I mean those that not are too deeply brainwashed) will say: let us fantasize together with him.

I have thought of something: When I make my curve of the gravity contribution from the building, I assume that the height of each floor is the same. This may be wrong; I think I read somewhere that the lower floors of that building are higher (originally there was a hotel there). Since the free air gradient for even a single floor is a large value compared to the gravity of the building, if the elevation shift is underestimated, we will calculate a too high gravity constant from the building.

First at all; great you are man enough to admit such great mistake.
Exactly, finally a bit reason have reach you mind.
Unless you know the exact height to each measurement points you can never know the buildings own ADG at any point.
This is why my friend (Cristian) this week will measure all floor height of (the 5lower floor) again, and checking the floor thickess at the staircase excactly, - and also try to get a impression of the concrete thickness.

For example if want to deduct 700 microgram too much or too less, (like you suggested not was unimportant, since you believed +/- 2 meter FAG wasn’t important) we do no longer speak about insignificant deviations but rather of completely nonsense.

Hence you are also completely unable to discuss anything, except off course; nonsense, - that I now believe you begin to understand that also cows and even chicken are much intelligent to take serious.

But I am afraid this is only the first small steep you have reach, - unfortunately it seems you are still far from close to understand what you really have been discussed the last weeks. For example the fact that the buildings ADG is increasing downwards towards the 1st floor, - on all the lower floors. – You should expect the completely opposite. - And notice suddenly at ground floor ADG is decreasing, clearly showing that the increase above not can be due to something in the underground.

There is no way you theoretically can show how to re-created the pattern you believe in, - no way my friend, - also not water tanks, concrete pillars, shopping center ect. will do it.

 

[MRC_Hans]

First at all; great you are man enough to admit such great mistake.
Exactly, finally a bit reason have reach you mind.

Great mistake? I have all the time said that my elevation figures were estimated. But I didn't realize that this could account for the upturn of the curve on the lower floors.

Unless you know the exact height to each measurement points you can never know the buildings own ADG at any point.

As I have said, yes. So, since you don't know that yourself, how can you pretend to make conclusions form your measurements?

For example if want to deduct 700 microgram too much or too less, (like you suggested not was unimportant, since you believed +/- 2 meter FAG wasn’t important) we do no longer speak about insignificant deviations but rather of completely nonsense.

Hold it there, sonny: As long as you just look for general trends, it is not so important.

Hence you are also completely unable to discuss anything, except off course; nonsense, - that I now believe you begin to understand that also cows and even chicken are much intelligent to take serious.

That's funny, Bjarne. Since YOU also did not have this info, why should anybody take YOUR conclusions seriously. You have just argued that anything deduced from your meaasurements is nonsense.

Congratulations! You just demolished your own arguments!



Hans

 

[Bjarne]

Great mistake?

Ohh yehh, enormous mistake.

I have all the time said that my elevation figures were estimated.

To put it VERY mildly

But I didn't realize that this could account for the upturn of the curve on the lower floors.

Now you know.

As I have said, yes. So, since you don't know that yourself, how can you pretend to make conclusions form your measurements?

I have calculated both possibilities, - which mean floors height 20 and 22 cm,. in both cases there are a clear pattern that totally smashed the prevailing holy creeds.

Hold it there, sonny: As long as you just look for general trends, it is not so important.

We are here talking about deviations, - such cannot be many times the total ADG of the building.
And this is the result of yours “estimations” – sonny.

That's funny, Bjarne.
Since YOU also did not have this info, why should anybody take YOUR conclusions seriously. You have just argued that anything deduced from your meaasurements is nonsense.
Congratulations! You just demolished your own arguments!

I have mentioned 2 possibleties, - depending on if the floor height is 20 or 22 cm.

In both cases the holy creeds you believe in is overturned.

You are just blab bla blab la la without any reference to anything. – THAT’s the difference.

 

[Paulhoff]

Once again and again, GPS works within inches, it takes in all about gravity and Relitivety to do so. Nothing has shown up that shows there is something missing. Bjarne seems to think there is a problem, well Bjarne write a paper on your work and we'll see where that goes.

Paul

 

[Reality Check]

In both cases the holy creeds you believe in is overturned.

You are just blab bla blab la la without any reference to anything. – THAT’s the difference.

In both cases your ignorance of basic science is further confirmed.

What Bjarne has measured is

• not predicted by his fantasy.
  This is because his fantasy has no prediction for the actual experiment - a measurement of the force of gravity in a stairwell at one side of the Domus Vista building. The only thing we have from Bjarne is an unsupported assertion pulled from his pet cow's bottom about measurements through the center of the building.
  If we take his fantasy seriously (which no one with a brain cell would) then he predicts that the ADG due to the building would be constant and zero !
• matches what we expect from Newtonian gravity, i.e. the ADG of the building varies within the building.
  The only surprising feature to me is that the variation is fairly linear (ignoring ground effects from the buidling foundations, the shopping center around the base and other buildings). I would have expected an S-shaped curve for the ADG along one side of a rectangular block.

The fatal flaws and basic ignorance in Bjarne's ideas in his threads

You are just blab bla blab la la without any reference to anything. – THAT’s the difference that turns you from a person who is trying to do actual science into a crackpot.

 

[MRC_Hans]

RealityCheck runs a (very chartiable, IMHO) list of things Bjarne does not understand, recently passing the 25 item mark.

I think that if we were to run a list of places where Bjarne contradicts himself, we couls quickly pass the 100 item mark.

Look here, for instance:

Ohh yehh, enormous mistake.

To put it VERY mildly

This is about MY estimated floor elevations in the Domus Vista (the building where Bjarne tries to show that the law of gravity is invalid).

However, Bjarne has no more knowledge than me about those elevations, but he thinks HIS calculations are true and right.

I have calculated both possibilities, - which mean floors height 20 and 22 cm,. in both cases there are a clear pattern that totally smashed the prevailing holy creeds.

Absolutely hilarious! This is about the elevation of the individual floors (because you have to allow for diminishing Earth gravity with increasing elevations), but Bjarne keeps babling about the thickness of the floor separations. This makes a difference for the mass of the boilding, of course, but otherwise, it is of minor importance.

We are here talking about deviations, - such cannot be many times the total ADG of the building.
And this is the result of yours “estimations” – .

Yes, Bjarne, since the free air gradient is higher than the ADG of the building, we need to know it carefully. So YOU should be grateful for me pointing out that the lower floors are probably taller, because that will mess up YOUR calculations big time.

I am actually trying to shed some light on all this, so your trouble and money shall not all be wasted, but YOU are busy babling nonsense about livestock and trying to tarnish everybody else. Perhaps you should stop and listen a bit, who knows? You might actually learn someting.

I have mentioned 2 possibleties, - depending on if the floor height is 20 or 22 cm.
http://www.science27.com/forum/ADGMDV.jpg

In both cases the holy creeds you believe in is overturned.
You are just blab bla blab la la without any reference to anything. – THAT’s the difference.

Well OKAY, Bjarne. SO please show how professional YOU are. Explain how you derive the numbers in each column of your spreadsheet, above. For instance, how do you derive the FAG column? I notice you have somewhat varying FAG figures for the lower floors. Where did you get those from?

Hans

 

[Bjarne]

This is about MY estimated floor elevations in the Domus Vista

This sound like boasting, - it has nothing with estimation to do.

However, Bjarne has no more knowledge than me about those elevations, but he thinks HIS calculations are true and right.

Right

Bjarne
I have calculated both possibilities, - which mean floors height 20 and 22 cm,. in both cases there are a clear pattern that totally smashed the prevailing holy creeds.
Hand
Absolutely hilarious! This is about the elevation of the individual floors (because you have to allow for diminishing Earth gravity with increasing elevations), but Bjarne keeps babling about the thickness of the floor separations. This makes a difference for the mass of the boilding, of course, but otherwise, it is of minor importance.

This is the way I measure the height of the building floor by floor.
It can be done more precisely off course, but the way it is done is not bad.

According to the weight, you can’t used the floor thickens at the stair case.

Inside the building the floor (and wall) are probably the double thickness and maybe more (as estimated before) . It was a mistake to use the floor thickens at the staircase to the weight estimation, but is very good to the height measurement, locally and total.

Yes, Bjarne, since the free air gradient is higher than the ADG of the building, we need to know it carefully. So YOU should be grateful for me pointing out that the lower floors are probably taller, because that will mess up YOUR calculations big time.

I have for a long time know that the buildings 3 lower floor are higher than the others, these data have been available here for months, - my friend, - shown in at least 10 links, and also as images above have .
I also have try tell you that many times, but you have chosen to ignore it.
And now you believe it is yours discovery.

Well OKAY, Bjarne. SO please show how professional YOU are. Explain how you derive the numbers in each column of your spreadsheet, above. For instance, how do you derive the FAG column? I notice you have somewhat varying FAG figures for the lower floors. Where did you get those from?

FAG = Multiply the meters from ground floor and to any measurement-point in the building you want.

You will off course not be able to get an “exact picture” of the buildings own ADG, so long you not exactly do know all the influences.
But you can very easy extract the buildings overall “ADG-pattern” and also easy reach a logical pattern based on all the know factors. - So soon all this is done you'll have a estimated pattern, and therefore also specific ADG anywhere you want.

First, - to find the buildings ADG-pattern, - it can be done by deducting the FAG from the total ADG values.
For example;
if you want to know the buildings ADG-pattern at 10th floor, then deduct the measured ADG at ground floor, with these measured at 10th ground floor.
You must do that on all floors, and you’ll get the result shown in the green or yellow column.

You can do the same with all the 3 different ADG measurements there have been different places in that building.

Now you can first at all compared the measured values from 3 different places in the building, (we are still waiting for the last report), - if all these measurements roughly shows to follow the same pattern, there are probably not any significant suddenly local influences.

Now You can based on the calculated values, - on a "experiential" basis pretend what if the pull from the underground is causing +50 microgal, how would that effect the “pattern” - and does that look reasonable.
It is easy to do.

What if the pull from the underground would be + 300 microgal, - how would that effect the “overall pattern” - and you can immediately see that if so, - the upper floor would have negative ADG, witch off course would exclude such possibility.

In the same chicken and cow logic easy way, you will soon discover that it is impossible to re-create the pattern you believe in, - except off course if you add invisible UFO's at the roof and dark matter in the building or underground and such kind of theoretical completely nonsense etc. etc. etc.

The conclusion is very clear, - you can easy see a completely different pattern as that you have expected, - and one day (if cows will help you) you will realize this must require a completely new theory.

But now wait for the last measurement, - of the floor height.
If the pattern after this adjustment looks strange, I will off course look for answers, - maybe buy drawings etc..

But so far the only strange thing seems to be that the old speculation possible could have surveyed so long..

The overall picture is very clear, - it is impossible to get something that just looks like the pattern you believe in.

Instead of going into small small details in DOMUS VISTA, I think it is better to focus on new projects, - that includes underground measurements.

 

[Bjarne]

For example;
if you want to know the buildings ADG-pattern at 10th floor, then deduct the measured ADG at ground floor, with these measured at 10th ground floor.
You must do that on all floors, and you’ll get the result shown in the green or yellow column.

Correction:
The highlighted text ins incorrect
You must also deduct the FAG before you'll have the buildings own ADG (pattern)

 

[MRC_Hans]

Correction:
The highlighted text ins incorrect
You must also deduct the FAG before you'll have the buildings own ADG (pattern)

You must also deduct the Earth gravity. Where do you get the value of that?

Also, it seems that you list the floor to floor difference. However, except for where individual floors are taller or near large mass concentrations, that can be expected to be constant.

What you must do is compare the gravity reading on each floor the the identical elevation in the free air column. This is what I have done, and I get a nice, fairly straight slope for most of the building. Only irregularity is the three lower floors, but just 50cm different floor hight can explain that.


Hans

 

[MRC_Hans]

This sound like boasting, - it has nothing with estimation to do.

Yes, it was an estimate.

I have for a long time know that the buildings 3 lower floor are higher than the others, these data have been available here for months, - my friend, - shown in at least 10 links, and also as images above have .
I also have try tell you that many times, but you have chosen to ignore it.
And now you believe it is yours discovery.

I may have overlooked some info in the midst of all your cow babble. Good heavens man, do you really think that anybody here wades through ALL your nonsense? Stick to facts and quit babbling about cows, chickens, and how harshly the world has treated you, if you want people to read what you say.

For example;
if you want to know the buildings ADG-pattern at 10th floor, then deduct the measured ADG at ground floor, with these measured at 10th ground floor.
You must do that on all floors, and you’ll get the result shown in the green or yellow column.

There is your error. OK, you note later that you need to deduct the FAG, but that's not the problem.

The problem is that you use the ground floor as baseline.

Since the ground floor is where the total gravity (minus FAG) is supposed to be the lowest, it is not strange that you do not see the negative contribution from the building.

The baseline gravity is NOT what you measure on the ground floor. It is what you would measure in the same spot, had the building not been there (but the foundations laid).

The overall picture is very clear, - it is impossible to get something that just looks like the pattern you believe in.

I didn't have any difficulty getting it. Give me your values for the hight of each floor, and I'll refine it.

Hans

 

[Belz...]

I have already ask, there is a price to pay.

And some people think the Grand Unification Theory has big hurdles !

 

[Bjarne]

You must also deduct the Earth gravity. Where do you get the value of that?

It is simple
Imaging you would measure 31 places (altitude) the same place where DOMUS VISTAS now are built, and pretend the building not where there.
Now you would measure the Earth’s ADG at the 31 altitude spots.
Hence ADG is expected to decrease; - minus the 0.3048 m/s^2 per upwards/meter. (FAG)

If there should be a 100 gold cows in the underground, (let say + 50 microgal af ground floor) you would measure the Earth ADG + off course a anomaly due to the gold-cows in the underground. .

The cow-anomaly is expected fast to decrease based on /r² , and should therefore few floors up be insignificant.

So without the building you really should not expect big surprised, - so long you not are measurement above a gold mine, a cellar or something even much more strange than that.

In other words everything it is without the present of the building pretty (roughly) predicable.

Also even though the buildings now are where it is, you are in fact doing the same, - and measure total ADG 31 different places.

But due to the building you’ll now get a different ADG pattern, which simply just means that you must calculate how much more (or less) ADG you get at each spot, compared to the FAG.

The difference is = your ADG pattern , showing the buildings ADG.

But off course we also must take the cellar and in fact other relative small factors into consideration.

But now wait until Christian finish the floor height check, It will be done Wednesday, - then we are much wiser. (he was too busy this week)

I may have overlooked some info in the midst of all your cow babble. Good heavens man, do you really think that anybody here wades through ALL your nonsense? Stick to facts and quit babbling about cows, chickens, and how harshly the world has treated you, if you want people to read what you say.

You know we are talking Newton here; – Action = Reaction.
If it is fair to call me a crazy crank, + invent looong crazy nuts lists, (to show how stupid I am) repeat this nonsence again and again and again etc... (just because I do not agree to loooong list of creeds, - I can be exactly so cow-silly, - be aware I am educated by the artillery.

The baseline gravity is NOT what you measure on the ground floor.

Of course not BUT you get a overall pattern doing like I did.

This pattern has it own logical limits, - for example if you ("experimentically" )change values one place, - the whole pattern “relocates” – the logic then is: how much can you “stretch” this pattern? - and when will the "stretch" most likely reflect reality.

For example shall we add or deduct 100 microgal in the bottom ?

BUT notice, as I wrote, - there is a limit how much you can “stretch”
Quickly it will look too strange – for example when you get negative ADG in the top etc…etc .. etc..….