Bjarne on: Dark Energy, only an illusion.

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This have nothing to do with inner central gravity.
There is no such thing as "inner central gravity".
The gravitational force is the gravitational force no matter where it happens.
The same gravity that is inside the Earth and holds us on the surface causes the GPS satellites to orbit. The same gravity causes GPS to need adjustments from general relativity to work.

But then we know that you do not know this anyway:
 
The proper derivation of the force using the proper mathematics shows that the force varies as the radius. It is zero as you would expect at the center where all of the forces balance.

It makes no sense continuing RC.

Measurement disproves this completely fanatic creeds.

Just keep continuing closing your eyes and the old “reality” will always be real for you.

I have added you to my ignore list RC
 
This have nothing to do with inner central gravity.
That is funny, thanks I needed that laugh.

That has been already worked out, why don't you open a book on the subject and learn about it.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
It makes no sense continuing RC.

Measurement disproves this completely fanatic creeds.

Just keep continuing closing your eyes and the old “reality” will always be real for you.

I have added you to my ignore list RC
It makes plenty of sense continuing Bjarne. There is a vague hope they you will learn something.

Measurement "proves" this completely realistic scientific theory (Newtonian and GR gravity). However in science nothing is ever "proven" - it is supported by evidence.

Just keep continuing closing your eyes and the new “fantasy” will always be delusional for you.

Feel free to ignore me and the science of you want.
Your ignore list though will get very long. Will it include eventually every person in this forum or every person in the world :D ?

Appreciate a quote from someone so that Bjarne can see this.
And since he is continuing to ignore
I am sure that somone else will start to link to these lists of his failures.
 
Hey Bjarne. Remember where you made the "claim" that cars would roll down a hill if their engine was turned off? Remember when you Photoshop'ed a picture that I was using as evidence to counter your "argument"? Remember when you never countered my counter? (Were all of your permanents tapped? No need to respond to that joke comment.)

Will you man up and say that you were wrong about your "claim"?
(Translation: Will you admit you were wrong about your "claim"?)

 
It makes plenty of sense continuing Bjarne. There is a vague hope they you will learn something.

Measurement "proves" this completely realistic scientific theory (Newtonian and GR gravity). However in science nothing is ever "proven" - it is supported by evidence.

Just keep continuing closing your eyes and the new “fantasy” will always be delusional for you.

Feel free to ignore me and the science of you want.
Your ignore list though will get very long. Will it include eventually every person in this forum or every person in the world :D ?

Appreciate a quote from someone so that Bjarne can see this.
And since he is continuing to ignore
I am sure that somone else will start to link to these lists of his failures.

Yes.
 
Correction

This theory predicts that not only time is changing in a field of gravity, but also distances (as well as the meter stick) this can explain the force responsible for subduction.

img_49.jpg

Based on the equation above, we can calculate the time as well as distances "stretch-factor":

bg.jpg

When the Earth approach the Sun (by perihelion) the background gravity is changing (stretching).
Or in other words, the background space stretch-factor is changing (stretching further).

Due to change in the stretching space background, - also space inside matter is stretching, - and hence also the meters stick.
But we are not able to discover that because everything is stretching / expands when the Earth is approaching perihelion.
Also the meter stick is stretching and become relative "longer" , - but one meter is still one meter.

Towards the inner central direction of the Earth, space is also gradually stretching increasingly.
Because the changing's of the background gravity (by Perihelion) - effects everything nearby, - (proportional with the already existing stretch factor), - the Earth also expands more in its central area than at the surface.

How much the perihelion of the Earth affects the inner expansion can be calculated as shown below.
bg1.jpg


This shows that the background gravity (or the background stretch factor) of the Sun can cause the Earth to expand none-propositional, which mean more inside than at the surface.

This also mean that the surface will crack at Perihelion, (the circumference will expand = + 12,8 cm).
Lava will flow up in the crack and cool.
When the Earth again is moving towards Aphelion, - the Earth will contract, and this will put a pressure on the crust, forcing subduction to take place.

Also the background gravity change caused by the moving Moon, play a similar role.

The Earth is also expanding due to the expanding Universe, but this influence is almost insignificant.
Each time the Universe is expanding to the double size, the earth will only expand 14 km.
 
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Does anyone want to guess what this gibberish is about.
It is not about the OP (dark energy).
It is not about gravity.

It seems to be Bjarne pulling an equation out of thin air (involving t which as any scientists knows is time) to say that something happens and then saying that that thing happens.

And then there is the mention of "subduction". It looks like he has returned to his belief in the expanding Earth fantasy that was throughly debunked in the first few pages.
 
Does anyone want to guess what this gibberish is about.
It is not about the OP (dark energy).
It is not about gravity.

It seems to be Bjarne pulling an equation out of thin air (involving t which as any scientists knows is time) to say that something happens and then saying that that thing happens.

And then there is the mention of "subduction". It looks like he has returned to his belief in the expanding Earth fantasy that was throughly debunked in the first few pages.

Distances is changing propotional with time
Hence the same equation can be used.
 
Distances is changing propotional with time
Hence the same equation can be used.
No. A distance is not measured in seconds. You do not stae the equation you used to calculate the distances or how you derived the equation.



But the gibberish part comes because
  1. You make up an arbitary equation that you think supports your unsupported assertion that the Earth is expanding.
  2. You refer to subduction which is nothing to do with the Earth expanding.
  3. There is no distance changing with time in any equation in that post :jaw-dropp!
    Just nonsense cut & pastes from some crackpot's web site.
ETA
But at least you are keeping up the rather low standards of science and mathemetics in your posts as in


The Earth is not expanding because I made up this arbitary equation by pulling it out of my pet cow's bottom :D:
t0 = tf
​
As you can see t never changes thus the Earth is proportionally the same.
 
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The posts that you have forgotten, Bjarne:
Hi Bjarne.

I can't comment on those parts of the discussion to do with cosmology, but I can say quite definitively that the idea of subduction is not speculation. I can say this with confidence because, not only can tectonic motion itself be observed directly, but subducting slabs can be imaged within the mantle by seismic tomography and earthquake focal mechanism studies. Also remember that, while these lines of evidence support the mechanism of accommodation of plate convergence by subduction, tectonic uplift due to convergence is evidenced by the folded and faulted crust that constitutes the Earth's great mountain chains. Such structures simply could not form on a planet whose crust experiences only tension on a large scale.

Bjarne, that sentence of mine that you quoted so selectively came immediately before a short description of the evidence. I will say it again here: not only can tectonic motion itself be observed directly, but subducting slabs can be imaged within the mantle by seismic tomography and earthquake focal mechanism studies.

Allow me to expand on that. Seismic tomography allows one to image the deep Earth by analysis of seismic wave speeds. Slabs of lithosphere which have been subducted into the mantle are revealed by this method, since they have different seismic properties to their surroundings. A quick search on Google Scholar will be a good place to start if you're interested.

Another method by which subducting lithospheric slabs can be imaged is in analysis of the earthquakes which occur within them. The depth of subduction-related earthquakes, and their distance from the surface trace of the subduction zone, plot the course of the sinking slab. Furthermore, the variation of earthquake focal mechanisms throughout the slab is just as one would expect in such a situation.



You seem to have misunderstood me. I did not claim that subduction zones are the only source of seismicity. I do not know much about the tectonics of Denmark, but I would guess that earthquakes there might be caused by isostatic readjustment of the crust since the removal of the ice sheets.



Bjarne, these are incredibly unscholarly references to cite in support of your argument. In the video that focuses on India and the Himalayas, for example, the narrator asks "how can an island uproot itself from the ocean floor [and] seemingly float across the ocean?" This is such an elementary misunderstanding that I can scarcely believe it's not a deliberate misrepresentation; I don't know which paints the maker of the video in a worse light. Is this the quality of evidence that you really intended to bring to this discussion?

In the same video it is claimed that the plain of India to the south of the Himalayas was stretched. This is a claim that is falsified by the reverse faulting which characterises the southern edge of the Himalayan arc. If mountain ranges were built by the adjustment of continental plates to a greater radius of curvature, then compressional structures at the surface would be mirrored by extensional structures at the base of the lithosphere, and the thickness across the plates would be conserved. This is the opposite of what is revealed to us by seismic and gravimetric studies. Furthermore, if the expansion of the Earth is accommodated at the surface by creation of new oceanic crust around relatively undeformed continents, reverse faulting in the flexing continents would be expected to occur at their centres and not their margins. Can the theory you support explain crustal shortening in the Andes?

One of the videos shows the deformation of North America, with Hudson Bay appearing to grow like a rifting ocean basin. This situation, if it were reality, would be easily provable by the detection of extensional faults and active rifting perpendicular to the axis of extension (appearing to be east-west in the video). Do I need to tell you that this idea conflicts with reality?


What relationship do you think Gravity Probe B has to plate tectonics? I was not aware of a link.
 
No. A distance is not measured in seconds
Distances is changing proportional with time
Hence the same equation can be used
If one second somewhere is “stretched” to relative a ½ second, then distances is also stretched to the relative the double size.
So the factor 1 ; 2 is already the result when it concern time.
The same factor is also relevant to the stretching time.
But I do not expect RC will understand even 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000002% of this cow logic simple statement.
Gravity and the stretching space is the same nature of space. Hence “these properties” which in fact is the same property can’t counteract itself. .
I can't comment on those parts of the discussion to do with cosmology, but I can say quite definitively that the idea of subduction is not speculation.
The problem to that this is that it is based on the idea that convection (inner heat flow) is the cause.
Such idea screams to heaven for help.
There is not that much force in convection. Everybody that ever had had a hammer in their hand will agree to that.

I have never totally denied subduction, but had been critical because the necessary force that that can make that happen haven't been implemented in the thesis.

Now it is , for those that understand that space is a very strange nature that not just curves, but rather stretches,and not with the same "factor" everywhere.

Correction to post 1207
Each time the Universe is expanding to the double size, the Earth also proportional to that expands to the double size, but since everything expands this parts can't be "observed". - In additional to that the surface only expand 14 km. extra each time the Universe and the Earth expands to the double size.
 
Distances is changing proportional with time
Hence the same equation can be used
No the same equation cannot be used. That equation is about time not distance. You need an equation with distance in it not your fantasy that "Distances is changing proportional with time".

Correction

This theory predicts that not only time is changing in a field of gravity, but also distances (as well as the meter stick) this can explain the force responsible for subduction.
Correction
GR is the theory that predicts that time changes in a gravitational field which is what you have quoted without a citation or any explanation.
Gravitational time dilation
A common equation used to determine gravitational time dilation is derived from the Schwarzschild metric, which describes spacetime in the vicinity of a non-rotating massive spherically-symmetric object. The equation is:

12b6af8d31abe31378245988a0e74f66.png
, where
  • t0 is the proper time between events A and B for a slow-ticking observer within the gravitational field,
  • tf is the coordinate time between events A and B for a fast-ticking observer at an arbitrarily large distance from the massive object (this assumes the fast-ticking observer is using Schwarzschild coordinates, a coordinate system where a clock at infinite distance from the massive sphere would tick at one second per second of coordinate time, while closer clocks would tick at less than that rate),
  • G is the gravitational constant,
  • M is the mass of the object creating the gravitational field,
  • r is the radial coordinate of the observer (which is analogous to the classical distance from the center of the object, but is actually a Schwarzschild coordinate),
  • c is the speed of light, and
  • r0 = 2GM / c2 is the Schwarzschild radius of M. If a mass collapses so that its surface lies at less than this radial coordinate (or in other words covers an area of less than 4πG2M2 / c4), then the object exists within a black hole.
But that is just the really bad science that we expect from you:



The middle of your post is your usual unsupported assertion with no physicsl bais. In this you are claiming that subduction happens because of an physical effect thta only exists in your head. Moreover you thing that subduction zones that are 100's of kilometers deep are caused by a mythical "circumference will expand = + 12,8 cm".​

The last sentence is you circling back to the central ignorance of this thread in your original post that you are still persisting with.​

The real science is
  • There is strong evidence that the universe is expanding.​
  • This expansion idoes not happen on local scales, e.g. on the Earth, because the force of gravity dominates.
    Simply (and incorrectly) put the Earth expands but gravity just pulls it back to where it was.​
 
Correction
...
Or in other words, the background space stretch-factor is changing (stretching further). ....
Yet another correction
You have the badly wrong idea that space can be stretched by gravity. This seems to be related to your persistent delusion about "stretched space":
"Bended space is Contracted Space"
Curved space is not contracted space
First Asked 11 November 2009
​
GR does predict changes in distances caused by gravitational waves. But this is tiny.
 
No the same equation cannot be used. That equation is about time not distance. You need an equation with distance in it not your fantasy that "Distances is changing proportional with time".
No the same equation cannot be used. That equation is about time not distance.
The point is that distance doesn’t "change".
Distances expands or contracts depending on if you move inwards or outwards in gravitational field. – But the meter-stick does the same.
Hence distances and are always the "same" since everything change proportional with distances (and time). But relative to each other distances are different, but always exactly proportional with the time/distance factor that rules different places in spacetime. – It’s the same factor.

You need an equation with distance in it not your fantasy that "Distances is changing proportional with time".
What do you mean?
For example do you think the distance to the Sun, - according to GR, - is affected by distance deviation, due to the Suns gravity? – If so show please shows me that equation.
Do you think 1 meter is relative longer closer to the Sun, compared to here?
Or how do you understand the claimed distances deviation, - due to gravity?
Please EXPLAIN:..
 
Bjarne, I think these guys have one up on you at the least, in that they know what they are talking about and you do not. If you're so certain they are wrong and you are correct, then the way to prove it would be to get published in a reputable peer reviewed journal. Can you do this?
 
Bjarne, I think these guys have one up on you at the least, in that they know what they are talking about and you do not. If you're so certain they are wrong and you are correct, then the way to prove it would be to get published in a reputable peer reviewed journal. Can you do this?
Don’t worry the basic of the theory that now is proven will be published “soon”.
But there are so many other consequences to consider, many of these are not ready for publishing, but only "frameworks" we also can consider.
It also your business, at least when for example an earth crake strikes.
What is the cause of subduction ?
Have you ever had a 5 kilo hammer in your hand ?, - if so you wouldn’t answer: that subduction is caused by convection, - this idea is much too weak, and too stupid.
Gravity MUST be involved. No other force can be responsible.
But this is only one example, - out of many, - how far this new theory I represent can reach, and one day will reach..
 
Funny, when one goes at 86.6 % of the speed of light, distances are cut in half in the direction of travel, but that is only for the one that is traveling. So to them it takes only half the time to get to where they are going. Therefore for them a 4 light-year journey takes only 2.31 years, when in fact to the ones back on earth that journey took 4.62 years.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
Don’t worry the basic of the theory that now is proven will be published “soon”.
But there are so many other consequences to consider, many of these are not ready for publishing, but only "frameworks" we also can consider.
It also your business, at least when for example an earth crake strikes.
What is the cause of subduction ?
Have you ever had a 5 kilo hammer in your hand ?, - if so you wouldn’t answer: that subduction is caused by convection, - this idea is much too weak, and too stupid.
Gravity MUST be involved. No other force can be responsible.
But this is only one example, - out of many, - how far this new theory I represent can reach, and one day will reach..

By published we mean in a reputable peer reviewed journal,not stuck onto your loony website.Which journal will be the lucky one?
 
What do you mean?
For example do you think the distance to the Sun, - according to GR, - is
It is really quite simple Bjarne:
We know that the values in your tables cannot be the found from the equation you cite. That equation is the the gravitational time dilation for a point at a radial coordinate r from a mass M derived from the Schwarzschild metric.
You of course know that
r is the radial coordinate of the observer (which is analogous to the classical distance from the center of the object, but is actually a Schwarzschild coordinate)
(emphasis added)
i.e r is not the distance from the mass.

ETA
If anyone is interested: The distance between two radial points in the Schwarzschild metric is given by a quite complex equation, for example see equation 8 on this preprint (PDF). N.B. these are stated in units where c = G = 1.

Tell us the actual equation that you used to calculate the values in your tables.

Please do not let us think that you are so ignorant of mathematics and science that you just plugged a distance into an equation for gravitational time dilation :rolleyes: but then ....
 
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